Ed Murder is fine ... if you're a woman

[Naive1000]

It would seem murders fine if your a woman. I guess men's lives mean nothing in our modern societies.

A WOMAN who burned her husband to death after "snapping momentarily" has become the third battered wife in seven years to avoid jail for manslaughter. (Link)

 

[SanityGap]

My wife was abused for twenty years by her ex husband. She still bears the physical scars and suffers every day because of the abuse (tinnitus, nose bleeds and dental problems to name some).
He has never been charged with any offence.
I guess women's lives mean nothing in our modern society.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

It would seem murders fine if your a woman. I guess men's lives mean nothing in our modern societies.

If you read that entire article, and that's the only thing that you took away from it, than I honestly don't know how to respond.

 

[Naive1000]

Sorry, if I believe that murder is never justified. The police should have put him in jail long before this point. But, she could have left or gotten a divorce. Has life become so meaningless to everyone?

 

[Wolfman]

Naive,

It's not because she's a woman. There are at least two situations in which killing someone is not considered murder; when one is acting to defend oneself, and when one is rendered temporarily insane. This doesn't apply to women only; it applies to everyone.

I don't know the specifics of this case: but if there was reasonable cause to believe that A) she felt her life was in danger (and given the history of abuse, that may have been the case), or B) the abuse had put her in a state of mind where she was legally insane (even if only temporarily), then this verdict is perfectly legal and fair. A man in the same situation would have received the same verdict.

Speaking of the "value of a life", here is a woman who was brutally abused by her husband, to the point where apparently (at least according to the evidence presented at trial) it caused her such terrible emotional stress that she 'snapped'. Now, I don't know for sure how severe it was, or if she actually knew what she was doing...

...but from a societal point of view, I think that the greater threat to society is this kind of abuse. After all, there are a hell of a lot more men beating, abusing, and even killing their wives through that abuse, than there are women killing their husbands as a result of that abuse.

 

[Lamuella]

in many situations, victims of domestic violence cannot leave. There may be children involved, there may be financial constraints, there may be cultural and psychological barriers. They may live in fear of a spouse hunting them down. They may have literally nowhere they can go.

I'm not by any means approving of the taking of life, but it's not hard to imagine circumstances where a person, especially an abused and mentally troubled person, could see themselves as having no alternative.

One last thing: you describe this as murder. This woman was not convicted of murder, but rather manslaughter. I don't have the details of the case in front of me, but I rather suspect that the reason she was charged with manslaughter rather than murder was the lack of intent to kill.

 

[SanityGap]

Sorry, if I believe that murder is never justified. The police should have put him in jail long before this point. But, she could have left or gotten a divorce. Has life become so meaningless to everyone?

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Women in this situation have had their free will all but removed. They fear the consequences of any action not sanctioned by the man. It takes a huge amount of courage and effort to break away from this sort of relationship.
Please do some reading on the subject before making such glib statements.

 

[Naive1000]

Well I believe that the temporary insanity plea is BS for one. Also, people leave abusive relationships without killing people all the time. And lastly all the abuse I've seen in my life has come at the hands of women not men so I take the idea that men are more abusive than women with a grain of salt.

 

[SanityGap]

in many situations, victims of domestic violence cannot leave. There may be children involved, there may be financial constraints, there may be cultural and psychological barriers. They may live in fear of a spouse hunting them down. They may have literally nowhere they can go.
<snip>

This.

 

[Aepervius]

If you read that entire article, and that's the only thing that you took away from it, than I honestly don't know how to respond.

I have read the article, and I am sorry, but the story is fishy enough. Sure domestic abuse is unacceptable, but murder , vigilantism and self justice, are even LESS acceptable for a stable society.

 

[Naive1000]

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Women in this situation have had their free will all but removed. They fear the consequences of any action not sanctioned by the man. It takes a huge amount of courage and effort to break away from this sort of relationship.
Please do some reading on the subject before making such glib statements.

You have no idea what I know, so I find your condescending attitude insulting. And I made no glib statements, I just find the idea that murder is the only option a complete fabrication.

@Wolfman: You might want to check your facts -- More than 40% of domestic violence victims are male, report reveals About Domestic Violence Against Men

 

[Lamuella]

Well I believe that the temporary insanity plea is BS for one. Also, people leave abusive relationships without killing people all the time. And lastly all the abuse I've seen in my life has come at the hands of women not men so I take the idea that men are more abusive than women with a grain of salt.

in your own state, women make up 82.8% of domestic violence victims.

In your own state, 48% of rapes (over 800 cases) are committed by a spouse or lover.

Domestic violence is a huge problem, and it's an even bigger problem in poor communities or immigrant communities.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

What difference does it make to this case what the relative split of gender is in domestic violence. If you've had years of being beaten and abused, what difference does it make to you that other people of your gender do the same thing to their spouses?

 

[Naive1000]

Why Women Assault:
California State University surveyed 1,000 college women: 30% admitted they assaulted a male partner. Their most common reasons: (1) my partner wasn't listening to me; (2) my partner wasn't being sensitive to my needs; and (3) I wished to gain my partner's attention.

As one man said, "I'm supposed to take it like a man."

Claudia Dias criticizes the different ways domestic violence against men and women is viewed. "When a man hits a woman, it's abuse and felony. When she does it, it's because she has a bad temper."
(Claudia Rodas, California State University)(Link)

Women are not the only victims, but if a man murdered a woman over the same thing he would be in jail (as he should be).

 

[Naive1000]

in your own state, women make up 82.8% of domestic violence victims.

In your own state, 48% of rapes (over 800 cases) are committed by a spouse or lover.

Domestic violence is a huge problem, and it's an even bigger problem in poor communities or immigrant communities.

You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

Do you live in my state? I'm guessing not, because if you did you'd know that men suck it up when they're abused. I've never known a man to call a cop when he was abused even when sent to the hospital, so don't tell me what I know.

 

[Lamuella]

Do you live in my state?

I used to live 20 miles from the border with your state.

I'm guessing not, because if you did you'd know that men suck it up when they're abused. I've never known a man to call a cop when he was abused even when sent to the hospital, so don't tell me what I know.

You're right, your anecdotal evidence definitely outweighs my recorded facts.

Lift your blinkers for a few minutes.

 

[Aepervius]

I used to live 20 miles from the border with your state.



You're right, your anecdotal evidence definitely outweighs my recorded facts.

Lift your blinkers for a few minutes.

Actually there is a good work of evidence that men are much more abused than the statistic tells (just google it), and even in this forum there were article cited estimating that the number of abused men are roughly identical to the number of abused women (that one you can discard if you want I am too lazy to look it up again), but culturally men are much much less likely to report it.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

I'm pretty sure men have successfully used the provocation defence to have their charge reduced to manslaughter. I recall fairly recent debate over the defence in England & Wales and its applicability in domestic violence cases. It was noted that a man who discovered his wife had been unfaithful and "snapped", killing her was able to use the defence whereas a woman who had been abused for years could not unless the killing was in response to a direct trigger, rather than a "slow burn" provocation.

The law has since been changed here:
http://crimeandevidence.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/changes-in-the-defences-to-murder-2/
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...rder-laws-will-replace-provocation-defence.do

 

[Lamuella]

Actually there is a good work of evidence that men are much more abused than the statistic tells (just google it), and even in this forum there were article cited estimating that the number of abused men are roughly identical to the number of abused women (that one you can discard if you want I am too lazy to look it up again), but culturally men are much much less likely to report it.

I'm happy to see such evidence if it exists, but that's not what was presented to me. What was presented to me was "well, in my state men suck it up and don't complain".

I think there likely is a problem of men not feeling able to make complaint about domestic violence, but that's not a problem that's very much to do with this story.

 

[Naive1000]

I used to live 20 miles from the border with your state.

You're right, your anecdotal evidence definitely outweighs my recorded facts.

Lift your blinkers for a few minutes.

Why don't you lift yours. Yes, because men are never abused the statistics could never have a bias or miss out on the fact that our culture tells men they can't be victims, that would never effect the holy government stats. Why not try a bit of skepticism, and look into male abuse a bit. But in the end none of it matters because homicide is still never the answer, nor should society ever accept it.

And who cares if you lived 20miles away; what does that have to do with anything?

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.