Multiple Bombs in Murrah Building Prove Inside Job

[GreNME]

http://independence.net/okc/mcveighletterfox.htm

A brief snippet:

I explain herein why I bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. I explain this not for publicity, nor seeking to win an argument of right or wrong. I explain so that the record is clear as to my thinking and motivations in bombing a government installation.

His own words. He goes into more detail for his motivations.

So, is McVeigh lying? Is he a liar?

 

[beachnut]

The sad TRUTH is, the govt has virtually complete control of the media. Were that not the TRUTH, well...it is the shamefull truth, i rest my case.


Dissent isnt allowed to be published if it isnt in lockstep with the official edict.

Sadly, the only parallel that comes to mind is late 30's Germany. Hitler was dead right in several areas, we should note these.

This one perhaps most telling of all...................


How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.



This one as well, holds sway..............If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.

Only a neoNAZI is dumb enough to believe this tripe. Hitler, the nut case leader who hated Jews enough to make an industry to kill them? Looks like Hitler was pure nuts, driven by hate. Like Partin, Hitler got the important, and moral things WRONG.

When you and Partin have a Pulitzer Prize with all this conclusive tripe! Please come back and tell me I am a parrot again after you fail to get the Pulitzer! Are you going to submit your massive evidence bank to the Pulitzer Prize committee, cause since you say your are right this is a locked deal!

Go do it! Stop wasting your time posting your massive, solid, airtight, investigative excellence evidence or others can ace you out of your Pulitzer Prize! Break the story today!

If I had, what you say you have, I would be on the phone to make history. But the sad truth is you and Partin are the few who have no clue on OKC. Otherwise you would break the story NOW!

How ironic, you are the one that fits your own favorite Hitler saying, and not me.

 

[uk_dave]

Did you see the quote regarding the blaster from Wyoming, who with a similar charge, didnt bother two trees standing 20 feet away?

You would, of course, be prepared to stand 20 feet away from the detonation.

You cite a los alamos scientist (or maybe it was TC, I can't really be arsed to check) with a claim that his knowledge of nuclear bombs makes him the ideal person to pontificate upon the structural perfomance of a building. See the problem with that?

You cite an ex cop (who apparently also worked as an investigative journalist and writer (novelist?)) who complains that his queries to the cheif of police were met with hostility and yet in his list of anomalies he questions whether they found a gun and then in the next sentence queries why they took an hour to find the gun. See the problem there? I bet the chief of police did.

You know, the world of the conspiracy theorist is populated with many retired experts, sometimes (but seldom) experts in the actual fields they seek to comment upon. But, you know, there is a reason why many professions (including the military) do like to let people go when they reach a certain age. And it doesn't always have anything to do with altruistic notions of allowing people to spend more time with their families.

One final thought. When a real investigation is carried out on a complex issue such as the OK bombing, the authorities and law enforcement tend to use a great many experts who specialise in very narrow fields of forensics and explosives and structures and medicine etc. They don't use the 'one size fits all' method of the 'truthers' who like to believe that just because some old guy has 40 years of experience playing with nuclear bombs (and when was the last time one of those was detonated above ground by the US (first person to say the wtc towers gets a slap)?) or an ex military type once flew a combat mission in vietnam, then they instantly become experts in structural engineering or civil aviation hijacking protocols or any number of other specialised fields which far exceed anything they would have ever dealt with during their professional careers.

In fact, out of the very many peculiar traits which 'truthers' exhibit when it comes to these matters, the one which stands out to me is a total lack of humility regarding their own abilities. I don't know if it's the school system, if it's genetic or what it is, but 'truthers' constantly amaze me with their ability to believe that they have the intellectual capacity to become expert in damn near anything so long as they have 'common sense', 'gut feeling' and google

The real world don't work like that.

 

[uk_dave]

This one as well, holds sway..............If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.

Oh the irony. It's the 'truther' MO to a tee.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Although the Yeakey incident occurred some thirty miles away in a different
jurisdiction, the investigation was quickly taken out of the hands of the El
Reno police and the Canadian County sheriff and turned over to the Oklahoma
City Police Department and the FBI. No homicide investigation was ever
conducted, and there was no autopsy.

Good morning, TMers... fellow members of the forum. It's a lovely sunny day here in Hong Kong. We've had 25 consecutive days of rain up until Tuesday, and it's about time, I'd say. How are you guys doing? Hot enough for ya?
(Keeping it civil for CZ... it makes her day when we can be all polite and suff.)

So, Roundhead.... I just keep looking at the quoted post and trying to reconcile it with your other indignant posts. Perhaps you could help us out here.

On the one hand, Wm. Craig Roberts is a retired police officer who we are to respect and honor for his service and his chosen profession.
Yet, above, you're saying the entire OKC police department swept the Yeakey investigation under the rug? Do you know how cops react to cops getting murdered? If you want to discuss it, I would suggest discussing with other than tha OKC cops you're charging with this crime.

TMers don't think when they make broadbrush accusations. We see it in the first responder implicit accusations from GZ and the Pentagon, and it's clear here.

Please answer: Were the OKC police in on the cover up? Yes or No will sufice.

 

[Mobyseven]

CTer: Hah! So you're saying that a well respected police officer was lying? Are you disrespecting the poor dead police officer?

Representative of the sane: No, I'm not saying that at all. Besides which, why are you discounting the confession and testimony of McVeigh himself, who has admitted how and why he blew up the Murrah building?

CTer: McVeigh? You believe him? I thought you thought he was a bad person!

RotS: *facepalm*

 

[A W Smith]

Another man who knows a thing or two about bombs is Samuel Cohen, inventor of the Neutron Bomb. Cohen began his career on the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, where he was charged with studying the effects of the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. During his 40 year career, Cohen worked with every application of nuclear weapons design and testing.

Cohen stated his position in a letter to Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key:

[/color]

Quote:
It would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil… no matter how much was used… to bring the building down.


​

And Cohen gets even that wrong. It was not "Fuel Oil"

It was nitromethane.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Not according to a variety of professional sources (who have no dog in this fight) including, among others, Partin.

That's not true at all. The behavior of wave phenomena is well established and taught to schoolchildren by such scientific luminaries as Bill Nye the Science Guy.

If you sources don't understand these effects then they are either not "professional" or they very much "have a dog in this fight" and are putting aside science to satisfy their personal biases.

Did you see the quote regarding the blaster from Wyoming, who with a similar charge, didnt bother two trees standing 20 feet away?

He didn't elevate the charge or place it above ground solid enough to reflect a strong secondary shockwave back up to the primary shockwave. As noted above, McVeighs bomb was 3 or four feet above ground and it was detonated over an ashphalt and concrete surface. An excellent surface for creating reflecting a strong secondary wave.

Your argument is therefore null and void.

 

[A W Smith]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6.

You lie

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1573248&postcount=256

 

[steve s]

is it your claim that these sworn affidavits are forgeries or that the witnesses are lying?

yes or no.

You really do love false dichotomies, don't you? Did it ever occur to you that they were just mistaken?

Steve S.

 

[steve s]

Another man who knows a thing or two about bombs is Samuel Cohen, inventor of the Neutron Bomb. Cohen began his career on the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, where he was charged with studying the effects of the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. During his 40 year career, Cohen worked with every application of nuclear weapons design and testing.

Cohen stated his position in a letter to Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key:

It would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil… no matter how much was used… to bring the building down.

Cohen may know a lot about neutron bombs, but he doesn't seem to know anything about the Murrah Building. First, he says the building was brought down. Only the front was destroyed.

Second, he talks about the laws of nature, but wants us to believe that the upper floors would have defied gravity once the transfer beam was gone.

Every one of the people that you've quoted seems to be completely unaware of how the building was constructed and the importance of the transfer beam. Therefore they are useless as experts.



Steve S

 

[steve s]

Dr. Roger Raubach doesn't believe the government. Raubach, who did his Ph.D. in physical chemistry and served on the research faculty at Stanford University, says, "General Partin's assessment is absolutely correct. I don't care if they pulled up a semi-trailer truck with 20 tons of ammonium nitrate; it wouldn't do the damage we saw there."

How many times do we have to say it. The bomb wasn't responsible for all the damage to the front of the building. All it had to do was take out the transfer beam and gravity did the rest. The so-called experts you keep quoting seem completely oblivious to this.

Please look at the photo of the Murrah building that Beachnut postd above. The transfer beam is readily apparent. Is it your claim that the upper floors would have stayed in place once that beam was gone?

Steve S.

 

[Jontg]

At the risk of angering dear Mr. Godwin, I'd like to point out that the "Big Lie" was part of Hitler's own pet CT--he wasn't giving a recommendation to future dictators, he was trying to explain how the Jews ruled the world without anybody ever noticing.
On that note, Roundhead... Yes, Fox and its various affiliates are basically mouthpieces for the lunatic right, but total media control? Please, think about the logistics of your claim. Think about how many people need to be bribed and intimidated--faking 9/11 would be child's play compared to this. Even if you had the resources, it's statistically inevitable that people would squeal, and statistically impossible for that many potential leaks to simply vanish without causing even more problems.

 

[beachnut]

Another man who knows a thing or two about bombs is Samuel Cohen, inventor of the Neutron Bomb. Cohen began his career on the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, where he was charged with studying the effects of the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. During his 40 year career, Cohen worked with every application of nuclear weapons design and testing.

Cohen stated his position in a letter to Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key:
Quote:

It would have been absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil… no matter how much was used… to bring the building down.

how do you think you did?

Oops, another non-expert makes up a statement and is wrong.

Small blasts with only a fraction of what McVeigh used.
Two sources better than Partin and Cohen. Your 2 experts out of thousands, struck out! How can you find the only experts in the world who get OKC wrong? That is amazing how consistent you are at finding people who make major errors on events, events with enough data, facts, and evidence that a kid off the street could make the correct conclusion. You find the only experts who mess up the whole story. That is a unique talent. It may be indicative of your failure to find the correct conclusions; what do you think? The nuke guy has zero understanding of fertilizer bombs, it would help if you stuck with chemical bomb makers, not nuclear. Yet Partin was not very good at this either.

I blew up my back yard when I was 11, I used a fertilizer bomb. Based on my blast experience alone, Partin and Cohen are not very good at fertilizer bombs and missed the mark. It is not unusual for Generals to be wrong on things, they are only human; your nuke expert must of over specialized and not able to grasp that the bomb was not a nuke. But anyone can read, research and understand the bomb used by McVeigh was large enough to do the job of killing children and damaging the building as he did due to bomb size and placement right up next to the building.

No other bombs contributed to the destruction at OKC, only McVeighs truck bomb. Thread title is false, not supported in fact, or evidence. With thorough research, anyone can prove the OP title is false.

 

[Hellbound]

Not really wanting to get into this argument, but thought I'd correct a few things.

First, the military does use ANFO and related explosives. In fact, because of it's lower expansion speed, ANFO is preferred to C-4 for a cratering charge. C-4 is preferred for breaching.

The reason is simple, if one considers the difference between, say, a high-powered rifle and a shotgun loaded with 00 buck.

C-4 would be less likely to push down a wall or roll off a column. The speed of it's shock wave is too fast. Instead, it will tend to cut and break.

ANFO, on the other hand, is the blunt object to C-4's scalpel. It will push as much as it breaks. This is why it's used for cratering charges. It won't do as well against hardened structures (like, for example, a reinforced concrete bunker) but is perfectly adequate for taking down normally-constructed buildings.

As an aside, it's also the same type of charge used to remove bridge abutments.

SGT Brister
U.S. Army
68W (Medical Specialist), 25B (Computer Analyst), 21B (Combat Engineer-this means part of my job is blowing up things with explosives)

 

[Foolmewunz]

LMAO .... at myself.

I'm reading the above, and saying.... "Wait, this sounds like someone from 'round these parts. Who's this guy taking material from Huntsman?"


and then I saw the sig.....

(I get confused when people change avatars! When you change names and avatars, I'm completely lost!)

 

[doobiedoright]

In a letter dated May 17, 1995, hand-delivered to each member of the Congress and Senate General Benton K. Partin. A retired U.S. Air Force Brigadier General said :



Another man who knows a thing or two about bombs is Samuel Cohen, inventor of the Neutron Bomb. Cohen began his career on the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos, where he was charged with studying the effects of the atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. During his 40 year career, Cohen worked with every application of nuclear weapons design and testing.

Cohen stated his position in a letter to Oklahoma State Representative Charles Key:

[/COLOR]

​

how do you think you did?

Apparently he and you dont know squat!
I have personally delivered Ammonia nitrate to a munitions maker!
That load was under strict rules by the gov.
It was also extremely dangerous as mixing it with diesel and a small spark makes a very big boom!

 

[doobiedoright]

Partin is perhaps the preiminent expert in the country on exactly this issue, the fact you try and dimish him personally, doesnt change that one bit.

His tests were well founded, and conclusive.


Like most on here, you swallow whatever the govt tells you hook line and sinker.

Since JFK, this country flat hasnt been the same. Independant thinking people, who question the drivel that has consistantly been rolled out (like the outright lies that got us into Iraq)are unfortunately, insufficient in number.

Quit being a parrot, and think for yourself. It will do you a world of good.



Let me guess, you probably believe the civil trial re MLK by Pepper is untrue also, right.

This place seems to be a bastion for official lie slurpage, its quite notable.

A piece of advice, retire from the Gazala line, its undefendable.

No body that deals with explosives would ever not take cover when blowing something up!
The guy clearly is nuts and should be put away!
Think I will try a experiment.Wonder how many pounds of m-80's it takes to bring down a average tree?

 

[doobiedoright]

Not really wanting to get into this argument, but thought I'd correct a few things.

First, the military does use ANFO and related explosives. In fact, because of it's lower expansion speed, ANFO is preferred to C-4 for a cratering charge. C-4 is preferred for breaching.

The reason is simple, if one considers the difference between, say, a high-powered rifle and a shotgun loaded with 00 buck.

C-4 would be less likely to push down a wall or roll off a column. The speed of it's shock wave is too fast. Instead, it will tend to cut and break.

ANFO, on the other hand, is the blunt object to C-4's scalpel. It will push as much as it breaks. This is why it's used for cratering charges. It won't do as well against hardened structures (like, for example, a reinforced concrete bunker) but is perfectly adequate for taking down normally-constructed buildings.

As an aside, it's also the same type of charge used to remove bridge abutments.

SGT Brister
U.S. Army
68W (Medical Specialist), 25B (Computer Analyst), 21B (Combat Engineer-this means part of my job is blowing up things with explosives)

I'm sure we will see the NWO label and dis-info very soon!

 

[Athyrio]

....Like most on here, you swallow whatever the govt tells you hook line and sinker.....Quit being a parrot, and think for yourself. It will do you a world of good.....

The second part above is one you should pay attention to.

.....The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6....

BATF at Murrah


So most of us around here swallow whatever the government tells us, "hook, line, and sinker".

So what do you have to say about yourself and your having swallowed the preceding lie about the ATF agents? As you previously stated, "This should be something fairly easy to research..From the link i posted, it says no ATF agents or they're kids who use the daycare facility."

Have you ever wondered about yourself believing such lies so easily, and they didn't even come from "the gov't". Maybe you should research these things before you "parrot" them.