Multiple Bombs in Murrah Building Prove Inside Job

[Drudgewire]

So, a personal attack on a veteran, and long time police official, who obviously was well thought of professionally, as he was asked to help.

I love how people who have no trouble maligning thousands of veterans and police officers as being "in on it" or dupes suddenly get on their high horse and declare the one dissenter amongst them above reproach.

So far beyond pathetic the rest of your post won't be read. Welcome to ignore.

 

[roundhead]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6.




On a radio talk show ten days after the bombing,

[Mark] Boswell interviewed 28 year CIA veteran James Black and assistant Ron Jackson regarding sworn affidavits now in their possession, sworn by two Justice Department officials which state that they were part of a ‘Committee of 10’ who planned the Oklahoma bombing. — Martin O. de Brook, Cherith Chronicle, May-July, 1995, page 5.



The BATF (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) later said they were dummy bombs, but why would bomb sniffing dogs find, or be needed to locate dummy bombs which are clearly marked as such; furthermore, why would munitions technicians spend so much time diffusing "dummy" bombs? KFOR-TV said that another bomb had been located strapped to a column next to the day-care center.

Around the noon hour, Channel 4 had as their guest Dr. Randall Heather, a terrorist expert. Dr. Heather stated: "We got lucky today, if you can consider anything about this tragedy lucky. We have both of the bombs that were defused at the site and they are being taken apart. We will be able to find out how they were made, and possibly who made them. These bombs are very sophisticated high explosives with maybe a little fertilizer damped around them."

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms had offices in the Murrah Building. On the day the Murrah building was bombed, none of the ATF agents came to work that morning. The ATF agents, who had children in the day-care center, did not drop their children off that day. There were no ATF agents or their children on the casualty list of the Oklahoma City bombing. — Freedom Network News, June/July 1996, pp. 5, 6.

source? (as in who told FNN no ATF agents came to work)

The BATF (Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms) later said they were dummy bombs, but why would bomb sniffing dogs find

why wouldnt they find them? they may well have been the same dummies they were trained with

or be needed to locate dummy bombs

did you see the buildign after the bombing?

which are clearly marked as such

so all a terrorist has to do is write 'Dummy - For Training Purposes" on a bomb and no one will consider it a threat?

furthermore, why would munitions technicians spend so much time diffusing "dummy" bombs?

have you ever heard the expression "better safe than sorry" ?

KFOR-TV said that another bomb had been located strapped to a column next to the day-care center.

because initial news reports are never EVER wrong (except when they dont fit the conspiracy theory)

 

[roundhead]

Dr. Roger Raubach doesn't believe the government. Raubach, who did his Ph.D. in physical chemistry and served on the research faculty at Stanford University, says, "General Partin's assessment is absolutely correct. I don't care if they pulled up a semi-trailer truck with 20 tons of ammonium nitrate; it wouldn't do the damage we saw there."

Raubach, who is the technical director of a chemical company, explained in an interview with The New American magazine:

"The detonation velocity of the shock wave from an ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel-oil) explosion is on the order of 3,500 meters per second. In comparison, military explosives generally have detonation velocities that hit 7,000 to 8,000-plus meters per second. The most energetic single-component explosive of this type, C-4 — which is also known as Cyclonite or RDX — is about 8,000 meters per second and above. You don't start doing big-time damage to heavy structures until you get into those ranges, which is why the military uses those explosives





Gronning, a licensed, professional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with 30 years experience in explosives, told The New American:

"The Partin letter states in very precise technical terms what everyone in this business knows: No truck-bomb of ANFO out in the open is going to cause the kind of damage we had there in Oklahoma City. In 30 years of blasting, using everything from 100 percent nitrogel to ANFO, I've not seen anything to support that story."[8]

In an interview with the author, Gronning said, "I set off a 5,000 lb ANFO charge. I was standing 1,000 feet from it, and all it did was muss my hair, take out the mud in the creek that we were trying to get rid of, and it shattered a few leaves off the trees around it. It didn't cause any collateral damage to any of the deeply set trees that were within 20 feet of it."

 

[GreNME]

Wait a minute: So Tim McVeigh is a liar? I could have sworn he's admitted, both officially and unofficially, to setting the bomb at the Murrah building.

 

[SDC]

No ATF agents' families came to the building so they must have been warned... Wait a minute, wait a minute, isn't there a similar statement about a certain group on 9/11? Jeez louise, the Mossad sure gets around.

 

[roundhead]

No ATF agents' families came to the building so they must have been warned... Wait a minute, wait a minute, isn't there a similar statement about a certain group on 9/11? Jeez louise, the Mossad sure gets around.

This should be something fairly easy to research..From the link i posted, it says no ATF agents or they're kids who use the daycare facility.

Question, were any ATF agents or any of they're children among the deaths or casualties?




From JD Cash 2008 McCurtain Daily Gazette


"Responding to press inquiries, the BATF at the time of the bombing said most of their agents had been out the night before on a surveillance operation and had slept in"

 

[roundhead]

From World affairs brief:

Edited by chillzero: 

Rule 4 breach. Cite sources.
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/oklahomacity.shtml

 

[uk_dave]

Most or all?

 

[roundhead]

From the same source as post 48............


"On the morning of April 19, 1995, the second anniversary of the federal assault on the Branch Davidian church complex in Waco, the ATF office at the Murrah Building was all but abandoned. Had they been warned of a possible attack? Compelling evidence led many survivors to begin asking questions about this. Bruce Shaw rushed to the building immediately after the blast to try to find his wife, an employee with the Federal Credit Union. In an interview with this reporter, and in sworn affidavits, Shaw said he was informed by an ATF agent at the scene that the ATF staff had been warned on their pagers not to come in. Two paramedics at the scene, in separate incidents, also reported hearing similar statements from ATF agents. The paramedics, Katherine Mallette and Tiffany Bible, have provided sworn affidavits of their testimony.

 

[uk_dave]

Lets play our own game of Personal Incredulity with the claims of Roberts....

Now, here are just a few of the items that do not figure in a "suicide":

And a few which don't figure in an 'assasination':

Yeakey's gunshot wound: Gunshot was from the upper right side of his skull downward to an exit wound below his left cheek bone. Hardly an angle of a self-inflicted wound. (See diagrams). This wound would be consistent to one fired "execution style" into the skull of a kneeling victim from an angle above and to one side of the victim.

Why shoot the victim in such an obvious execution style? If the victim was at the mercy of the assasin then the assasin could choose to inflict the wound in any way necessary to fake the 'suicide'. Are we to believe assasins can't even fake it now?

Wound was small caliber and left a small entrance and exit hole, with only "soot" at the entrance wound. It was a contact wound showing a barrel imprint, but there were now blasting (staration) effects of muzzle gases on the wound margins. This would be more indicative of a silencer that would absorb the gasses.

But surely a silencer would only be necessary if the 'execution' was carried out in the appartment. What evidence is there that the victim died in his apartment?

There were multiple cuts on his wrists, inner elbows, and jugular veins. If he was going to shoot himself, why would he cut himself so many times.

If he was to be assasinated why would they cut him so many times?

His estranged wife, Tonia, told me that she talked to the funeral home that received Yeakey's body, and that they told her there were rope marks around his neck, and handcuff marks on his wrists—none of which are indicated in the official medical examiner's report.

What do 'handcuff marks' look like? I thought he had cuts on his wrists. How expert was the person making this claim?

He was found in a field 1/2 mile from where his car was discovered by a Canadian County SO deputy. He had, in the middle of the night, crossed a barbed wire fence, a ditch/creek, and then "killed himself" in the middle of a pasture. Why go to that trouble? Why not just kill himself in his car, or his apartment?

Why not go to that trouble? Are we to believe it wasn't a suicide simply because he sought a secluded spot to end his life? Really?

He told a friend the afternoon he disappeared that he was being followed, and as soon as he shook his followers, he'd be back and meet him for dinner.

Really that easy eh? Throw them off then come back and have dinner with a friend? What friend? How reliable? How paranoid was the victim?

He also removed boxes of files from his apartment and had them in his car when he left to stash them in his mini-storage in Yukon (or El Reno--not sure which ). The files were not in his car when it was found.

Proof that the files existed?

Did anyone ever attempt to find the bullet that allegedly was used at the scene?

I hope so, otherwise every single police officer who attended the scene must be in on it.

If so, were ballistics tests done to link it with a particular gun?

See above

Was a gun found at the scene, and was it his gun?

See above

I ask this because it was relayed to me that no gun was found until after an hour after his body was located.

Ahhh so a gun was found then. Was it registered to a W. Clinton? Would the assasin fake a suicide and not leave a gun which could be traced back to the victim?

See? It's real easy to poke holes in this dross.

 

[roundhead]

Lets play our own game of Personal Incredulity with the claims of Roberts....



And a few which don't figure in an 'assasination':

Why shoot the victim in such an obvious execution style? If the victim was at the mercy of the assasin then the assasin could choose to inflict the wound in any way necessary to fake the 'suicide'. Are we to believe assasins can't even fake it now?

But surely a silencer would only be necessary if the 'execution' was carried out in the appartment. What evidence is there that the victim died in his apartment?

If he was to be assasinated why would they cut him so many times?

What do 'handcuff marks' look like? I thought he had cuts on his wrists. How expert was the person making this claim?

Why not go to that trouble? Are we to believe it wasn't a suicide simply because he sought a secluded spot to end his life? Really?

Really that easy eh? Throw them off then come back and have dinner with a friend? What friend? How reliable? How paranoid was the victim?


Proof that the files existed?
I hope so, otherwise every single police officer who attended the scene must be in on it.
See above

See above

Ahhh so a gun was found then. Was it registered to a W. Clinton? Would the assasin fake a suicide and not leave a gun which could be traced back to the victim?

See? It's real easy to poke holes in this dross.

Although the Yeakey incident occurred some thirty miles away in a different
jurisdiction, the investigation was quickly taken out of the hands of the El
Reno police and the Canadian County sheriff and turned over to the Oklahoma
City Police Department and the FBI. No homicide investigation was ever
conducted, and there was no autopsy.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Raubach, who is the technical director of a chemical company, explained in an interview with The New American magazine:

"The detonation velocity of the shock wave from an ANFO (ammonium nitrate/fuel-oil) explosion is on the order of 3,500 meters per second. In comparison, military explosives generally have detonation velocities that hit 7,000 to 8,000-plus meters per second. The most energetic single-component explosive of this type, C-4 — which is also known as Cyclonite or RDX — is about 8,000 meters per second and above. You don't start doing big-time damage to heavy structures until you get into those ranges, which is why the military uses those explosives

Keep in mind that the ANFO bomb MCVeigh used was situated 3 or 4 feet off the ground in the bed of the truck he used. One of the reasons the military often fuses shells and bombs so that they airburst is due to a phenomenon that increases the strength and hitting power of the blast wave.

When an explosive shockwave from an elevated detonation rebounds off the ground and meets the original shockwave, the blast strength of the wave at that point is dramatically increased. This is a phenomenon you can re-create in your kitchen sink at home. Just fill in with water and drop a pebble in it. The ripples will spread out, hitting the sides of the sink and where the rebounding ripples meet other ripples, they will almost double in size and height.

Long story short, through an accident of physics that McVeigh might not have even been aware of, his bomb tragically able to make up the missing strength it needed to take out that critical column.

 

[roundhead]

Keep in mind that the ANFO bomb MCVeigh used was situated 3 or 4 feet off the ground in the bed of the truck he used. One of the reasons the military often fuses shells and bombs so that they airburst is due to a phenomenon that increases the strength and hitting power of the blast wave.

When an explosive shockwave from an elevated detonation rebounds off the ground and meets the original shockwave, the blast strength of the wave at that point is dramatically increased. This is a phenomenon you can re-create in your kitchen sink at home. Just fill in with water and drop a pebble in it. The ripples will spread out, hitting the sides of the sink and where the rebounding ripples meet other ripples, they will almost double in size and height.

Long story short, through an accident of physics that McVeigh might not have even been aware of, his bomb tragically able to make up the missing strength it needed to take out that critical column.

Not according to a variety of professional sources (who have no dog in this fight) including, among others, Partin.

Did you see the quote regarding the blaster from Wyoming, who with a similar charge, didnt bother two trees standing 20 feet away?

There are enough tests and professional opinions out there to render the truck bomb and its effects that day a fallacy.

 

[beachnut]

Not according to a variety of professional sources (who have no dog in this fight) including, among others, Partin.

...
There are enough tests and professional opinions out there to render the truck bomb and its effects that day a fallacy.

Partin is wrong, not much of expert since he is wrong on this, is the nut case with the 800 weapon too? Good job finding a nut case with strange ideas on two full blown CTs of junk. You call Partin an expert, but he is a guy with nut case ideas. A big zero on the expert meter on this guy's ideas on OKC.

The single truck bomb is it. Sorry, there was proof in OKC, you should have gone to OKC. Please go there now and spew your lies, or is it just hearsay you gather as you string together junk ideas on OKC with no real action to go correct it. Better not, your ideas are pure fantasy and have no standing.

You have CT ideas on OKC and 9/11. Must be a trend of poor research and belief in liars, why are you so gullible?

Or...
To suggest anyone but McVeigh and Nichols were behind the OKC bombing is pure poppycock. If Fortier were not paranoid and into drugs, they may have turned in the too dumb white guys who decided to kill government people, but found children and the good people of OKC much easier. Finding it too hard to get away with it in Dallas, they had to blow up people who most likely helped McVeigh park his truck next to the Murrah Building.

Most people who fall for the lies about OKC you have presented, must not understand how big the bomb was that McVeigh made, and that he was essentially right next to the building like the car in this photo. The failed ideas you have outlined are due to the ignorance of the authors, and pure lies people love to spew.

The lowest scum of the earth are those who repeat the fact less, evidence free tripe of Partin and other dirt dumb ideas about OKC. You must be posting the idiot ideas you have found on OKC, since you are a JREF skeptical kind of guy who knows the idiots who make up these failed ideas are trying to fool other, and you have clearly exposed them.

Some people have argued that seismic recordings of the event indicated multiple bombs. This contention was refuted by U.S. Geological Survey and Oklahoma Geological Survey scientists, who recorded and analyzed seismic signals from the demolition of the Murrah building. These demolition seismograms showed that the two pulses of energy recorded in Norman, OK from the bombing were due to the seismic response of the Earth rather than to multiple blast sources.(source - Dietel, C., Digital seismic recordings of the May 23, 1995, demolition of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USGS Open File Report 95-594, 1995.

How dumb/researched challenged/lacking rational, logical thinking challenged do those who make up this stuff you posted have to be to avoid all the evidence and make up, or believe the false information spread by charlatans on OKC? Those who spew the lies like the title of this thread are too ignorant on research methods, and lack knowledge on the topics required, to do any better.



Sad that people have to make up false conspiracy theories for a real conspiracy. What is the problem? Why do people want to make up lies about OKC? Is killing innocent people by a nut case too hard to understand? Are the people making up the ideas as dumb as McVeigh?

 

[roundhead]

Partin is wrong, not much of expert since he is wrong on this, is the nut case with the 800 weapon too? Good job finding a nut case with strange ideas on two full blown CTs of junk. You call Partin an expert, but he is a guy with nut case ideas. A big zero on the expert meter on this guy's ideas on OKC.

The single truck bomb is it. Sorry, there was proof in OKC, you should have gone to OKC. Please go there now and spew your lies, or is it just hearsay you gather as you string together junk ideas on OKC with no real action to go correct it. Better not, your ideas are pure fantasy and have no standing.

You have CT ideas on OKC and 9/11. Must be a trend of poor research and belief in liars, why are you so gullible?

Partin is perhaps the preiminent expert in the country on exactly this issue, the fact you try and dimish him personally, doesnt change that one bit.

His tests were well founded, and conclusive.


Like most on here, you swallow whatever the govt tells you hook line and sinker.

Since JFK, this country flat hasnt been the same. Independant thinking people, who question the drivel that has consistantly been rolled out (like the outright lies that got us into Iraq)are unfortunately, insufficient in number.

Quit being a parrot, and think for yourself. It will do you a world of good.



Let me guess, you probably believe the civil trial re MLK by Pepper is untrue also, right.

This place seems to be a bastion for official lie slurpage, its quite notable.

A piece of advice, retire from the Gazala line, its undefendable.

 

[chillzero]

Perhaps everyone could take a breath, and post with a little more civility, please?

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: chillzero

 

[GreNME]

Since JFK, this country flat hasnt been the same. Independant thinking people, who question the drivel that has consistantly been rolled out (like the outright lies that got us into Iraq)are unfortunately, insufficient in number.

You mean the same JFK who betrayed thousands of Cuban people, nearly caused WWIII, and who got us into the mess that was Vietnam to begin with?

Look, you really don't have to respond to my posts-- like where I already pointed out how McVeigh admitted to the bombing in the first place-- but the stuff about JFK somehow being some kind of unsung hero is complete and total malarky that was sold to you to get you emotionally invested. Kennedy did some cool things, like the space program and pushing for civil rights in this country, but not all of the things he did were for the heroic purposes he's often mistaken as having. The space program was to develop rockets for ICBMs and to flaunt our technological supremacy to the world (mission accomplished). The civil rights legislation largely consisted of the pet projects proposed by Lyndon Johnson, whom Kennedy ran against in the primaries but needed in order to win southern states in the general election (basically political quid pro quo). Kennedy ran his first presidential campaign on an "I'm more anti-commie than Nixon" banner because he was, in fact, very hawkish when it came to the spread of communism in Asia (especially southeast Asia). However, make no mistake that Kennedy was a fairly liberal politician, and his ideas for healthcare and welfare would have bristled even modern libertarians and paleoconservatives. Also remember: it was Kennedy who created the Peace Corps, among other programs, that increased government's size.

So I can kind of understand being drawn to a compelling conspiracy theory, but trying to remake Kennedy's legacy into fitting the typical anti-government, anti-tax, anti-everything-but-libertarian-ideals batch of conspiracy rhetoric is just plain ridiculous.

In closing, simply answer me this: since McVeigh admitted to the bombing and had many years in prison from which to change his mind and expose the supposed conspiracy, why didn't he? The argument seems to fall apart when the accused perpetrator admits to actually perpetrating the crime.

 

[beachnut]

Partin is perhaps the preiminent expert in the country on exactly this issue, the fact you try and dimish him personally, doesnt change that one bit.

His tests were well founded, and conclusive.

No, Partin has zero evidence and his idea on this is clearly off the nut case scale. Did I miss the big frenzy over his ideas in the media? Or are people being polite to the guy with the nut case idea?

There are thousands of experts in this field who disagree, and that is why Partin has not Pulitzer Prize for his work that only shows he has crazy ideas on OKC. He also has crazy ideas on flight 800. Funny, you will not use his work on 9/11. Sad, when the crazy ideas fit the people who love to make up stuff, they use Partin, but when his ideas mirror what really happen, he is useless to those who make up false ideas on events, because they can.

Proof again we live in free country which lets people openly make up fantasies about anything they want.

Since it is so conclusive, you better submit the evidence for the Pulitzer Prize. Quick, it has been a while, someone could beat you to the truth. Oops! Doubt you or Partin will be going to pick up the Pulitzer. Sad.

 

[roundhead]

No, Partin has zero evidence and his idea on this is clearly off the nut case scale. Did I miss the big frenzy over his ideas in the media? Or are people being polite to the guy with the nut case idea?

There are thousands of experts in this field who disagree, and that is why Partin has not Pulitzer Prize for his work that only shows he has crazy ideas on OKC. He also has crazy ideas on flight 800. Funny, you will not use his work on 9/11. Sad, when the crazy ideas fit the people who love to make up stuff, they use Partin, but when his ideas mirror what really happen, he is useless to those who make up false ideas on events, because they can.

Proof again we live in free country which lets people openly make up fantasies about anything they want.

Since it is so conclusive, you better submit the evidence for the Pulitzer Prize. Quick, it has been a while, someone could beat you to the truth. Oops! Doubt you or Partin will be going to pick up the Pulitzer. Sad.

The sad TRUTH is, the govt has virtually complete control of the media. Were that not the TRUTH, well...it is the shamefull truth, i rest my case.


Dissent isnt allowed to be published if it isnt in lockstep with the official edict.

Sadly, the only parallel that comes to mind is late 30's Germany. Hitler was dead right in several areas, we should note these.

This one perhaps most telling of all...................


How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think.



This one as well, holds sway..............If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.