Mueller Investigation pt5

[Delphic Oracle]

We have the indictments, the plea deals, the filings implicating "Individual Number 1" and we all know exactly who that is.

There's a difference between uninformed supposition and well-informed deduction.

 

[Ziggurat]

We have the indictments, the plea deals,

None involving collaboration between the Trump campaign and Russia.

the filings implicating "Individual Number 1" and we all know exactly who that is.

Are you talking about Cohen and the payments to Stormy? Because those payments weren't a crime. I know the theory that they should have been declared as a campaign expenditure, but that theory doesn't hold water. Got anything else?

 

[phiwum]

Those two words really do not belong together. Make up your mind. Is it a fact or is it your speculation?

Er, it can be a fact that something is probably true. It's a fact that the next time I roll a die, the number rolled will probably not be one.

I think it's reasonable to say that Putin probably didn't expect Trump to win. Indeed, there are enough reasons for this that one might call it a fact.

In any case, I wouldn't hang a rebuttal on this mixing of "it is a fact that probably X" is nonsensical. The meaning is reasonably clear. It means "probably X".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I wasn't aware this was a controversial claim. Which part specifically do you want a cite for?

Something that shows this is actually relevant to Mueller's investigation of Trump.

Something besides The Federalist and other right wing efforts to discredit Mueller that support the claim Mueller did any more than pursue a suspect Mueller later dropped.

 

[Ziggurat]

Something that shows this is actually relevant to Mueller's investigation of Trump.

Are you uncertain of any of the facts of the Hatfill case as I described it?

 

[smartcooky]

Are you talking about Cohen and the payments to Stormy? Because those payments weren't a crime. I know the theory that they should have been declared as a campaign expenditure, but that theory doesn't hold water. Got anything else?

Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime that wasn't even a crime, and is going to jail for not committing a crime.

Got it!

(Oh and before you try the old chestnut that he is going to jail for those other crimes, he still pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, and the guilty plea still contributes to his sentence.)

 

[Steve]

Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime that wasn't even a crime, and is going to jail for not committing a crime.

Got it!

(Oh and before you try the old chestnut that he is going to jail for those other crimes, he still pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, and the guilty plea still contributes to his sentence.)

Something I have learned from this forum - In the US legal system there are judges, lawyers, and other people educated in the theory and practise of law. These people are charged with the day to day operations of the legal system. There are also lay persons who know the law better than anyone employed in the field, and are thrilled with the opportunity to advise those working in the field that they just don't understand the law. These people only impose themselves when they notice a serious misapplicatiion of the law. The judges and lawyers are always willing to accept that advice and adjust their methods and practises accordingly. Thus, a judge will soon realize that Cohen was convicted of a non-crime. He will be freed and paid millions in compensation along with a sincere apology. Just you wait and see.

 

[smartcooky]

Something I have learned from this forum - In the US legal system there are judges, lawyers, and other people educated in the theory and practise of law. These people are charged with the day to day operations of the legal system. There are also lay persons who know the law better than anyone employed in the field, and are thrilled with the opportunity to advise those working in the field that they just don't understand the law. These people only impose themselves when they notice a serious misapplicatiion of the law. The judges and lawyers are always willing to accept that advice and adjust their methods and practises accordingly. Thus, a judge will soon realize that Cohen was convicted of a non-crime. He will be freed and paid millions in compensation along with a sincere apology. Just you wait and see.

I think we can safely call that post a "cainism"

 

[Steve]

I think we can safely call that post a "cainism"

What, me? Cain is the master. I am not worthy.

 

[Ziggurat]

Cohen pleaded guilty to a crime that wasn't even a crime, and is going to jail for not committing a crime.

Got it!

Pleading to that was part of a package. You think Cohen gives a **** about what exactly he pled to? Of course he doesn't. He cares about the sentence. If he can get a lower sentence by including a plea to something that isn't a crime, then of course he's going to do that.

(Oh and before you try the old chestnut that he is going to jail for those other crimes, he still pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions, and the guilty plea still contributes to his sentence.)

He doesn't get to pick and choose which ones he'll plead to and which ones he will contest. It's a package deal. There is no a la carte menu.

 

[Ziggurat]

Something I have learned from this forum - In the US legal system there are judges, lawyers, and other people educated in the theory and practise of law. These people are charged with the day to day operations of the legal system. There are also lay persons who know the law better than anyone employed in the field, and are thrilled with the opportunity to advise those working in the field that they just don't understand the law. These people only impose themselves when they notice a serious misapplicatiion of the law. The judges and lawyers are always willing to accept that advice and adjust their methods and practises accordingly. Thus, a judge will soon realize that Cohen was convicted of a non-crime. He will be freed and paid millions in compensation along with a sincere apology. Just you wait and see.

Why would the judge care? It's not an issue for him (the sentence isn't out of line with just the other crimes), Cohen isn't going to appeal it because he can't, and no one else can appeal on his behalf because they don't have standing. So it's never going to be contested unless someone tries to prosecute Trump. And at that point, the case against Trump will fall apart just like it did against John Edwards. But that still won't make a difference to Cohen's case.

And it's not like there aren't expert lawyers who have pointed out the problems with this claim against Trump.

 

[Aridas]

Start with the fact that Putin probably expected Hillary to win. Almost everyone did, and with good reason. Why collude with the future loser? Plenty of risk and little upside with that strategy.

Did you forget, already, that Trump had plans to capitalize on a loss? Plans that just happened to align with Putin's goals?

 

[Steve]

Why would the judge care? It's not an issue for him (the sentence isn't out of line with just the other crimes), Cohen isn't going to appeal it because he can't, and no one else can appeal on his behalf because they don't have standing. So it's never going to be contested unless someone tries to prosecute Trump. And at that point, the case against Trump will fall apart just like it did against John Edwards. But that still won't make a difference to Cohen's case.

And it's not like there aren't expert lawyers who have pointed out the problems with this claim against Trump.

Of course. Judges don't care if defendants in their court are charged with actual crimes or not. Just convict the buggers and sentence them.

 

[Ziggurat]

Did you forget, already, that Trump had plans to capitalize on a loss?

Are you under the impression that this changes anything I said? It doesn't.

Plans that just happened to align with Putin's goals?

I see nothing in your link which suggests any alignment with Putin.

 

[Ziggurat]

Of course. Judges don't care if defendants in their court are charged with actual crimes or not. Just convict the buggers and sentence them.

Cohen was absolutely guilty of other crimes, there's really no doubt about that. So it's not like the judge is sentencing an innocent man. And as I pointed out, the sentence isn't out of line with the other crimes excluding that one. So what injustice is being done to Cohen? None, really. So why would the judge care? It's not his fight.

 

[Steve]

Cohen was absolutely guilty of other crimes, there's really no doubt about that. So it's not like the judge is sentencing an innocent man. And as I pointed out, the sentence isn't out of line with the other crimes excluding that one. So what injustice is being done to Cohen? None, really. So why would the judge care? It's not his fight.

A decent judge should care about everything that goes on in their courtroom. Judges do not have "fights" in their courtroom. Ever. You should educate yourself on the role of judges in your legal system.

 

[Cabbage]

Why collude with the future loser? Plenty of risk and little upside with that strategy.

And yet, despite your "logic", Russian agents met with Trump agents in Trump Tower. Reality trumps your naïveté.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump Tweeted

Spreading the fake and totally discredited Dossier “is unfortunately a very dark stain against John McCain.” Ken Starr, Former Independent Counsel. He had far worse “stains” than this, including thumbs down on repeal and replace after years of campaigning to repeal and replace!

Because the economy is so good, General Motors must get their Lordstown, Ohio, plant open, maybe in a different form or with a new owner, FAST! Toyota is investing 13.5 $Billion in U.S., others likewise. G.M. MUST ACT QUICKLY. Time is of the essence!

Google is helping China and their military, but not the U.S. Terrible! The good news is that they helped Crooked Hillary Clinton, and not Trump....and how did that turn out?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Trump tweeted

How is the Paris Environmental Accord working out for France? After 18 weeks of rioting by the Yellow Vest Protesters, I guess not so well! In the meantime, the United States has gone to the top of all lists on the Environment.

 

[Andy_Ross]

trump Tweeted

Retweets of loads of tweets he made over the last few dat complaining about everything.

He must be running out of words.