Mueller Investigation pt5

[Ziggurat]

Remind me what Hatfill was charged with again?

Mueller won’t charge Trump with anything regardless of what he finds. But are you really under the impression that what happened to Hatfill doesn’t matter just because he wasn’t formally charged? Do you not understand how even an investigation can negatively impact a person’s life?

 

[a_unique_person]

https://twitter.com/johnson_carrie/status/1106554794267811841

Manaforts jailing and future trials must have focussed his mind.

 

[johnny karate]

Mueller won’t charge Trump with anything regardless of what he finds. But are you really under the impression that what happened to Hatfill doesn’t matter just because he wasn’t formally charged? Do you not understand how even an investigation can negatively impact a person’s life?

Fun fact: Number of posts by Ziggurat expressing concern about this issue during the time that it was actually happening = 0.

 

[Ziggurat]

Fun fact: Number of posts by Ziggurat expressing concern about this issue during the time that it was actually happening = 0.

What possible relevance do you imagine that has to this thread? Because there is none.

 

[johnny karate]

What possible relevance do you imagine that has to this thread? Because there is none.

I'm not the one who brought up Hatfill.

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm not the one who brought up Hatfill.

Hatfill has relevance to this thread. The fact that I didn't comment on Hatfill at the time does not. That isn't hard to understand, and yet you still failed to.

 

[jimbob]

Prosecutors are simply not finders of truth. They are there to prosecute people for crimes. They are the embodiment of "when all you have is a hammer ..."

True, however in the case of the Mueller investigation, we have had several convictions and guilty pleas as a result of it. Mueller is uncovering crimes in this investigation. The evidence is very strong.

 

[WilliamSeger]

Mueller won’t charge Trump with anything regardless of what he finds. But are you really under the impression that what happened to Hatfill doesn’t matter just because he wasn’t formally charged? Do you not understand how even an investigation can negatively impact a person’s life?

But Trump believes that if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, he wouldn't lose any support. It would appear that he greatly fears Mueller will turn up something worse than that.

 

[Ziggurat]

But Trump believes that if he shot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue, he wouldn't lose any support.

No. Trump said that. The connection between what he says and what he believes is not always straightforward or obvious.

 

[Ziggurat]

True, however in the case of the Mueller investigation, we have had several convictions and guilty pleas as a result of it. Mueller is uncovering crimes in this investigation. The evidence is very strong.

A number of those have been process crimes with no underlying criminal conduct. Anyone in the crosshairs of such an investigation needs to worry about the possibility of ending up like that, regardless of their prior innocence.

 

[WilliamSeger]

No. Trump said that. The connection between what he says and what he believes is not always straightforward or obvious.

Well, ya know, that's exactly why no sensible person believes his "no collusion" denials.

 

[Ziggurat]

Well, ya know, that's exactly why no sensible person believes his "no collusion" denials.

It would indeed be foolish to believe that there was no collusion simply because he denied it. But there are other reasons to believe that there was no collusion.

 

[WilliamSeger]

A number of those have been process crimes with no underlying criminal conduct. Anyone in the crosshairs of such an investigation needs to worry about the possibility of ending up like that, regardless of their prior innocence.

********. If Mueller doesn't find out why so many trumpers told so many lies about so many secret contacts with Russians, then we'll need another investigation.

 

[WilliamSeger]

It would indeed be foolish to believe that there was no collusion simply because he denied it. But there are other reasons to believe that there was no collusion.

Really? Like what?

 

[jimbob]

Really? Like what?

Becuase Trump is a pathological liar and he publicly asked Russian hackers for help?

 

[Ziggurat]

Really? Like what?

Start with the fact that Putin probably expected Hillary to win. Almost everyone did, and with good reason. Why collude with the future loser? Plenty of risk and little upside with that strategy. Then note that Russia's involvement seems to have been directed mostly at stirring the ****, as they say, rather than trying to achieve any specific wins. Which makes sense, because that advances their aims regardless of the outcome, and the outcome didn't look like it would be a Trump win. Finally, note that even after years of investigation, there's still no apparent there there.

 

[Ziggurat]

Becuase Trump is a pathological liar and he publicly asked Russian hackers for help?

Really? That's the best you got? That's just sad.

 

[dasmiller]

Start with the fact that Putin probably expected Hillary to win. Almost everyone did, and with good reason. Why collude with the future loser? Plenty of risk and little upside with that strategy. Then note that Russia's involvement seems to have been directed mostly at stirring the ****, as they say, rather than trying to achieve any specific wins.

But if they could stir more effectively by working with the Trump campaign, wouldn't they have done it? Certainly the Trump campaign was willing to work with the Russians.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Mueller won’t charge Trump with anything regardless of what he finds. But are you really under the impression that what happened to Hatfill doesn’t matter just because he wasn’t formally charged? Do you not understand how even an investigation can negatively impact a person’s life?

I'm saying that Mueller wasn't Hatfill's "opponent". He was running an investigation in which Hatfell was a person of interest. Regardless of whether or not that investigation went too far, or whether or not the focus on Hatfill was justified, the purpose of the investigation was to find the truth. The evidence exonerated Hatfill.

If Trump is innocent, then the same will be true in this investigation.

This is the point - it wasn't a personal vendetta against Hatfill. Mueller wasn't trying to "get" him at all costs. Mueller was trying to get the person responsible for the attacks. Whether or not he was justified in thinking that Hatfill was that person is beside the point. It wasn't a game with the two of them on opposing sides. That's simplistic and childish.

It's also not a personal vendetta against Trump, and nor is it a game. It's an investigation to discover the truth.

 

[Ziggurat]

But if they could stir more effectively by working with the Trump campaign, wouldn't they have done it?

Not necessarily. Like I said, that's a higher risk play. It's not enough for there to be some reward, the reward has to justify that risk. A Clinton administration likely wouldn't have been happy about the **** that Russia stirred with Black Lives Matter, for example. But if they had actively colluded with Trump, and Hillary won and then found out about that collusion? How do you think Hillary would have taken that?

Certainly the Trump campaign was willing to work with the Russians.

To a certain degree. And to a certain degree it can be legal to do so.