Mueller Investigation pt4

[Norman Alexander]

Trump took notes from his translators, there are no records, not even classified ones, of what Trump and Putin discussed, and even some of Trump's advisors are in the dark.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...f6686c-1434-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html

Is there not some legislation in the USA that all the President's official correspondence needs to be recorded and archived? If so, I imagine this is a breach of this legislation. Any conversations between Trump and Putin would surely count as official...

 

[Andy_Ross]

House Chairmen Issue Warning After President’s Statements on Cohen Testimony

Washington D.C. (Jan. 13, 2019)—Today, Rep. Elijah E. Cummings, Rep. Adam Schiff, and Rep. Jerrold Nadler, the Chairmen of the House Committees on Oversight and Reform, Intelligence, and the Judiciary, issued the following statement in response to President Donald Trump’s comments last night on Fox News regarding Michael Cohen’s testimony before Congress:

"The integrity of our process to serve as an independent check on the Executive Branch must be respected by everyone, including the President. Our nation’s laws prohibit efforts to discourage, intimidate, or otherwise pressure a witness not to provide testimony to Congress. The President should make no statement or take any action to obstruct Congress’ independent oversight and investigative efforts, including by seeking to discourage any witness from testifying in response to a duly authorized request from Congress."

https://oversight.house.gov/news/pr...ter-president-s-statements-on-cohen-testimony

 

[Norman Alexander]

House Chairmen Issue Warning After President’s Statements on Cohen Testimony

https://oversight.house.gov/news/pr...ter-president-s-statements-on-cohen-testimony

They are talking to a person who has long been bought by and worked with The Mob and Russian Mafia, and now wagging a finger at him and believing he will abide by the rule of law.

How adorable!

 

[Darat]

They are talking to a person who has long been bought by and worked with The Mob and Russian Mafia, and now wagging a finger at him and believing he will abide by the rule of law.



How adorable!

I don't think they are that dumb, all they are doing is winding up the snowflake of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!

 

[smartcooky]

House Chairmen Issue Warning After President’s Statements on Cohen Testimony


https://oversight.house.gov/news/pr...ter-president-s-statements-on-cohen-testimony

It won't make any difference to how Trump behaves. He compulsively verbalises whatever comes into is head, and he won't listen to anyone telling him that what he is doing is wrong

The evidence of this is clear - he tried to send a letter to James Comey advising him he is being fired to stop the Russia investigation, and when the White House counsel (McGahan?) told him that this was a bad idea, he went ahead to told and interviewer the same thing.

In short, he is an arrogant, attention-seeking, narcissistic, know-it-all asshat. He thinks he's always right about everything, never wrong about anything, and knows everything about everything. Trump is the complete, textbook, walking/talking example of Dunning-Kruger effect.

 

[BadBoy]

I’ve read these reports and I find myself skeptical. The stories are almost too good for the narrative that Trump is beholden to Putin, like maybe a leaker(s) with an agenda is feeding them to the reporter. I want to read some more thorough reporting before making up my mind.

Maybe someone can research Trump’s interactions with other shady leaders and compare/contrast. For instance, at the start of the presidency, we read a lot of stories that it was his habit to tear up the paper of his speeches, notes, etc. into little pieces and that archivists were having to re-assemble them for public records purposes. Not that this would excuse anything, I’m just a little leery of this storyline.

I would be more inclined to think that Trump didn't want the meetings minutes preserved due to other reasons far less interesting. Here are a few:

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known
2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it known
3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known
4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known
5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.
6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

All of the above I could believe.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It won't make any difference to how Trump behaves. He compulsively verbalises whatever comes into is head, and he won't listen to anyone telling him that what he is doing is wrong....

Not to Trump but it's a good idea IMO to remind the public the Congress is doing what they are supposed to be doing, not simply attacking Trump for political reasons.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Not to Trump but it's a good idea IMO to remind the public the Congress is doing what they are supposed to be doing, not simply attacking Trump for political reasons.

That's probably what is galling him the most: He is being increasingly bypassed and ignored by people he thought "worked for him". Who knows what he will do when Mitch McConnell finally caves and allows some reasonable government business to resume by overriding presidential veto, i.e. pass the continuation bills they passed before. The wall battle will no doubt continue for years yet. But however it goes, the GOP don't want to be remembered in the next 12-24 months in run-up to the next elections as the party that supported Trump when he killed Christmas 2018.

 

[The Shrike]

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known

Since when does he care about being caught in a lie?

2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it know

ditto

3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known

I'm not sure that he recognizes when he's being an ass.

4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known

Again, why would he suddenly care about this perception? His base knows that Obama was at-odds with Putin. Therefore being his buddy is a good thing.

5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.

Maybe, but you're giving him credit both for recognizing he was messed with and, again, caring how it makes him look. Remember, anything reported about him that we might consider unflattering he's already headed off at the pass as fake news. Until FOX starts covering him honestly, he's got media immunity.

6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

Bingo. This one I can get behind.

 

[carlitos]

I would be more inclined to think that Trump didn't want the meetings minutes preserved due to other reasons far less interesting. Here are a few:

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known
2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it known
3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known
4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known
5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.
6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

All of the above I could believe.

Interesting, especially #6.

Further to my earlier point, we really don't know just how bad Mueller has Trump on obstruction. It could actually be a Trump source for this info, getting it out there before any investigation output comes to light. If everything is leaked before the Mueller report, people might be desensitized to it as being old news. With the sheer volume of collusive behavior that is already on the public record, this seems like a possibility.

 

[Belz...]

I’ve read these reports and I find myself skeptical. The stories are almost too good for the narrative that Trump is beholden to Putin

Well, if he's beholden to Putin, what's the alternative?

 

[carlitos]

Well, if he's beholden to Putin, what's the alternative?

Can you please rephrase this? I'm reading it as "Assuming that the stories are right, what's the alternative to them being right?"

 

[Belz...]

Can you please rephrase this? I'm reading it as "Assuming that the stories are right, what's the alternative to them being right?"

That's not far from what I meant. If Trump is beholden to Putin, you expect exactly this sort of thing, so fitting too well with that theory is no reason, in my opinion, to discount the report.

 

[carlitos]

Wouldn't you like to at least see a report on communications with other leaders, and whether they fit a similar pattern? Were there "readouts" and interpreter communications released from meetings with North Korea? Were country-expert aides present / briefed about his discussions with Xi Jinping? Heck, what about friendly nations like Germany? It's possible that Trump is just used to speaking in private and not sharing communications with underlings in any context. This secretive tendency contributes to the **** show that is White House communications today, that's for sure.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

This noise by Trump that FBI is some subversive anti-GOP group is bonkers.
They must be the most Republican organisation in the government.

The NY FBI office was literally leaking information to Rudy Giuliani to help Trump and harm Clinton.

 

[quadraginta]

Not to Trump but it's a good idea IMO to remind the public the Congress is doing what they are supposed to be doing, not simply attacking Trump for political reasons.

To Trump supporters, and the sycophants who ride his coattails, any criticism of Trump overt or implied is, by definition, an attack for political reasons.

 

[varwoche]

Wouldn't you like to at least see a report on communications with other leaders, and whether they fit a similar pattern? Were there "readouts" and interpreter communications released from meetings with North Korea? Were country-expert aides present / briefed about his discussions with Xi Jinping? Heck, what about friendly nations like Germany? It's possible that Trump is just used to speaking in private and not sharing communications with underlings in any context. This secretive tendency contributes to the **** show that is White House communications today, that's for sure.

These are never released to the public, so far as I know. The reason this came to light is because administration officials asked, as they had been left in the dark.

 

[timhau]

I would be more inclined to think that Trump didn't want the meetings minutes preserved due to other reasons far less interesting. Here are a few:

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known
2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it known
3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known
4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known
5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.
6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

All of the above I could believe.

Even number 3? What makes you think Trump would realize he made an ass of himself?

 

[Belz...]

Wouldn't you like to at least see a report on communications with other leaders, and whether they fit a similar pattern? Were there "readouts" and interpreter communications released from meetings with North Korea? Were country-expert aides present / briefed about his discussions with Xi Jinping? Heck, what about friendly nations like Germany? It's possible that Trump is just used to speaking in private and not sharing communications with underlings in any context. This secretive tendency contributes to the **** show that is White House communications today, that's for sure.

Sure, but since you ask the question I presume that, like me, you don't know, so I think it's a bit early to discount the report, is my point.

 

[Cavemonster]

I would be more inclined to think that Trump didn't want the meetings minutes preserved due to other reasons far less interesting. Here are a few:

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known
2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it known
3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known
4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known
5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.
6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

All of the above I could believe.

That doesn't square with the fact that Trump took steps ahead of these meetings to keep them especially secret that are not common practice. All of your suppositions are reactive to the events of the meeting, but all signs point to Trump planning to keep these meetings secret ahead of time.

They also don't square with the repetition of these tactics through multiple meetings.

There is far better explanatory power in a view that Trump knew before the meetings began that he wanted to keep them secret.