Mueller Investigation pt4

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Belz... said:
Sure, but since you ask the question I presume that, like me, you don't know, so I think it's a bit early to discount the report, is my point.
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I'll wait for more evidence; I'm especially interested in comparing how he interacted with China and NK. IIRC, we have similar information black holes regarding the summit with Kim.
 
Most significant, IMO, from the standpoint of the FBI and the Intelligence community was Trump's repeated attack on anyone with Russia-critical information, comparing them to Nazis and claiming they were just in Clinton's pocket. He repeatedly rejected US intelligence and instead embraced Russian propaganda.
What choice did he leave investigators than to assume that, at the very least, any results of a counter-intelligence investigation would instantly be shared with the Kremlin, should the White House be briefed?
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Most significant, IMO, from the standpoint of the FBI and the Intelligence community was Trump's repeated attack on anyone with Russia-critical information, comparing them to Nazis and claiming they were just in Clinton's pocket. He repeatedly rejected US intelligence and instead embraced Russian propaganda.
What choice did he leave investigators than to assume that, at the very least, any results of a counter-intelligence investigation would instantly be shared with the Kremlin, should the White House be briefed?
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It is amazing that this is a legitimate question to ask.

The USA has gone down a very deep and dangerous rabbit hole
 
carlitos said:
I'll wait for more evidence; I'm especially interested in comparing how he interacted with China and NK. IIRC, we have similar information black holes regarding the summit with Kim.
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The difference is that Trump doesn't have a history of connections with China or NK, and no one has claimed that any foreign leader except Putin helped him get elected.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
They are talking to a person who has long been bought by and worked with The Mob and Russian Mafia, and now wagging a finger at him and believing he will abide by the rule of law.

How adorable! ;)
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It is not wagging a finger, it is setting a stage. With the hopes that he will put on a show.

Do you think he can resist responding to this?
 
Bob001 said:
The difference is that Trump doesn't have a history of connections with China or NK, and no one has claimed that any foreign leader except Putin helped him get elected.
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Yes, which means that no one is looking at those interactions, or leaking about them to the press. There isn't interest in them, so we are seeing a narrow picture in a story that confirms our biases.

Full disclosure - I want to believe this story, but I also want to know whether this particular aspect of our relationship with Russia is unique. If the same is true for the Saudis or Emiratis, for example, that paints a wider picture of corruption. If it's true about many other countries, it points to general secrecy, or perhaps incompetence.
 
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varwoche said:
We already know for a fact that customary meeting "read outs" were not read out.
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There was also the second meeting that didn't have the American translator or any American aside from Trump present that creates a curious timeline.

THREAD: Has anyone noticed the very disturbing overlap between Trump’s insistence on preventing his own staff from learning about discussions with Putin at the Hamburg G20 meeting in July 2017 and how he handled initial revelations about the infamous Trump Tower meeting? 1/

Consider the following timeline: on July 7–8, 2017,Trump attends the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany the site of his first face to face encounter with Putin. 2/

On the morning of July 7, 2017, the New York Times informs the White House--for the first time--that it has learned about the Trump Tower meeting between Don Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer with Russian government connections, Natalya Veselnitskaya. 3/

The New York Times asks the White House to comment. 4/

On the afternoon of July 7, 2017, Trump and Putin, accompanied only by Rex Tillerson, Sergei Lavrov and their interpreters, meet for 2 and 1/2 hours. 5/

We now know from @gregpmiller that after the meeting Trump seizes the US interpreter’s notes and tells her not to brief senior NSC or State Department aides about the conversation with Putin. https://wapo.st/2Fyrqtt?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.2dec17269030 … 6/

Later that evening on July 7, 2017, during the formal G20 summit dinner, Trump seeks out Putin for another conversation. Putin’s interpreter is the only other participant. 7/

The fact of this meeting is not publicly revealed until more than a week later after @ianbremmer hears about it from other G20 attendees. (The White House doesn’t officially confirm it until July 18, 2017.) http://reut.rs/2vfTTwi @steveholland1 8/

As Bremmer points out, Trump oddly doesn’t even inform his own staff afterwards that he’s had this second conversation with Putin. https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1084583168152428545 … 9/

On the AF1 flight back to Washington the next day on July 8, 2017, Trump dictates the text of the now infamous, misleading statement (for Don Jr. to release) about the Trump Tower meeting. http://wapo.st/2vh7dmA?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.c483e459eca7 … @AshleyRParker @CarolLeonnig @PhilipRucker @thamburger 10/

Don Jr.’s statement to @nytimes emphasizes: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” at the meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya 11/

The @nytimes story about the Trump Tower meeting appears later that same day (July 8, 2017) https://nyti.ms/2uWPOMw @Jo_Becker @mattapuzzo @adamgoldmanNYT 12/

On July 11, 2017 the same @nytimes team breaks the story that Don Jr was told in advance that Veselnitskaya intended to provide dirt on the Hillary Clinton campaign at the behest of the Russian government. Don Jr. replies: "I love it." https://nyti.ms/2u4Ly0W 13/

On July 19, 2017 Trump repeats the false assertion that he talked to Putin about adoption in a conversation with @peterbakernyt, @nytmike and @maggieNYT https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-transcript.html?module=inline … 14/

In the same interview, Trump also floats the idea that there was nothing inappropriate about his senior-most campaign officials meeting with foreign emissaries who wanted to help his campaign. “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” 15/

All of this begs the question: What did Trump and Putin actually discuss at that impromptu one-on-one dinner meeting at the Hamburg G20 on July 7, 2017? 16/

Moreover, why did they huddle together by themselves within hours of the White House learning that the at-that-point-still-secret Trump Tower meeting between Trump, Jr. and the Russians was about to become public? 17/

Put another way, shortly after the New York Times reached out to the White House to ask about a secret meeting with the Russians, Trump himself sought a secret meeting with the Russians. 18/

h/t Former federal prosecutor who helped compile this timeline and series of as-yet unanswered questions END​
 
BadBoy said:
I would be more inclined to think that Trump didn't want the meetings minutes preserved due to other reasons far less interesting. Here are a few:

1. Trump lied in the meetings and doesn't want it known
2. Trump lied in the meeting and Putin called him out and he doesn't want it known
3. Trump made a a complete ass of himself in the meeting and he doesn't want it known
4. Trump likes Putin and they were very buddy buddy, and he doesn't want it known
5. Putin messed with him, saying stuff to Trump that implied collusion which would look bad for Trump and he doesn't want it known.
6. Trump wanted to keep the meeting secret to make himself seem important, and what they discussed was bland and unimportant.

All of the above I could believe.
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Worth pointing out that the man tears up notes and papers as a matter of routine - the WH has people to piece them back together.

Not that he isn't doing other things wrong - the man's a career criminal with decades of Russian mob ties...
 
Apparently Twitter has something called threads, where twitter people try to publish long-form stories. It does not work. Really, go back ten years and write a blog post. Just link to it on Twitter.

/get off my lawn
 
carlitos said:
Apparently Twitter has something called threads, where twitter people try to publish long-form stories. It does not work. Really, go back ten years and write a blog post. Just link to it on Twitter.

/get off my lawn
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I miss the era of blogs and forums. Having all the discussions in one place, be it Twitter or Facebook, is good on the surface, but Twitter isn't a medium for deep conversations, more like quips and short "bursts" of information.

I like it when Angry WH Staffer publishes long-form answers on his blog, and does the rest of his communicating on Twitter. It's a good compromise.
 
Stacko said:
There was also the second meeting that didn't have the American translator or any American aside from Trump present that creates a curious timeline.

THREAD: Has anyone noticed the very disturbing overlap between Trump’s insistence on preventing his own staff from learning about discussions with Putin at the Hamburg G20 meeting in July 2017 and how he handled initial revelations about the infamous Trump Tower meeting? 1/

Consider the following timeline: on July 7–8, 2017,Trump attends the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany the site of his first face to face encounter with Putin. 2/

On the morning of July 7, 2017, the New York Times informs the White House--for the first time--that it has learned about the Trump Tower meeting between Don Jr., Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer with Russian government connections, Natalya Veselnitskaya. 3/

The New York Times asks the White House to comment. 4/

On the afternoon of July 7, 2017, Trump and Putin, accompanied only by Rex Tillerson, Sergei Lavrov and their interpreters, meet for 2 and 1/2 hours. 5/

We now know from @gregpmiller that after the meeting Trump seizes the US interpreter’s notes and tells her not to brief senior NSC or State Department aides about the conversation with Putin. https://wapo.st/2Fyrqtt?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.2dec17269030 … 6/

Later that evening on July 7, 2017, during the formal G20 summit dinner, Trump seeks out Putin for another conversation. Putin’s interpreter is the only other participant. 7/

The fact of this meeting is not publicly revealed until more than a week later after @ianbremmer hears about it from other G20 attendees. (The White House doesn’t officially confirm it until July 18, 2017.) http://reut.rs/2vfTTwi @steveholland1 8/

As Bremmer points out, Trump oddly doesn’t even inform his own staff afterwards that he’s had this second conversation with Putin. https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1084583168152428545 … 9/

On the AF1 flight back to Washington the next day on July 8, 2017, Trump dictates the text of the now infamous, misleading statement (for Don Jr. to release) about the Trump Tower meeting. http://wapo.st/2vh7dmA?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.c483e459eca7 … @AshleyRParker @CarolLeonnig @PhilipRucker @thamburger 10/

Don Jr.’s statement to @nytimes emphasizes: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children” at the meeting with Natalia Veselnitskaya 11/

The @nytimes story about the Trump Tower meeting appears later that same day (July 8, 2017) https://nyti.ms/2uWPOMw @Jo_Becker @mattapuzzo @adamgoldmanNYT 12/

On July 11, 2017 the same @nytimes team breaks the story that Don Jr was told in advance that Veselnitskaya intended to provide dirt on the Hillary Clinton campaign at the behest of the Russian government. Don Jr. replies: "I love it." https://nyti.ms/2u4Ly0W 13/

On July 19, 2017 Trump repeats the false assertion that he talked to Putin about adoption in a conversation with @peterbakernyt, @nytmike and @maggieNYT https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/trump-interview-transcript.html?module=inline … 14/

In the same interview, Trump also floats the idea that there was nothing inappropriate about his senior-most campaign officials meeting with foreign emissaries who wanted to help his campaign. “Who wouldn’t have taken a meeting like that?” 15/

All of this begs the question: What did Trump and Putin actually discuss at that impromptu one-on-one dinner meeting at the Hamburg G20 on July 7, 2017? 16/

Moreover, why did they huddle together by themselves within hours of the White House learning that the at-that-point-still-secret Trump Tower meeting between Trump, Jr. and the Russians was about to become public? 17/

Put another way, shortly after the New York Times reached out to the White House to ask about a secret meeting with the Russians, Trump himself sought a secret meeting with the Russians. 18/

h/t Former federal prosecutor who helped compile this timeline and series of as-yet unanswered questions END​
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Holy Snappin' Duck-feces!!

That is a very suspicious series of coincidental circumstances.
 
smartcooky said:
Holy Snappin' Duck-feces!!

That is a very suspicious series of coincidental circumstances.
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My opinion is that the Trump family was/is in the midst of business dealings with Russia/Putin/oligarchs.

I don't think Trump is a Putin patsy. I just think Trump is a money-hungry vulture always on the lookout for the next big business deal. Presidential position be damned.

I'm putting my money on Trump juggling his businesses and cutting deals by way of using his newfound presidential influence/power as a means of negotiating/leveraging.
 
quadraginta said:
To Trump supporters, and the sycophants who ride his coattails, any criticism of Trump overt or implied is, by definition, an attack for political reasons.
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That doesn't mean the Democrats should just roll over. There are people besides Trump's base out there who are unsure what is going on.
 
AnonyMoose said:
My opinion is that the Trump family was/is in the midst of business dealings with Russia/Putin/oligarchs.

I don't think Trump is a Putin patsy. I just think Trump is a money-hungry vulture always on the lookout for the next big business deal. Presidential position be damned.

I'm putting my money on Trump juggling his businesses and cutting deals by way of using his newfound presidential influence/power as a means of negotiating/leveraging.
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He is just a simple grifter. Ready to make money however he can and by ways that a law abiding company would ignore. Most of his dealings with Russia have probably been money laundering.

As a willing Patsy the Russians have just made use of him whenever it has been convenient.
 
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I suspect the Russians have long used him as a "useful idiot". Same purpose, just that DJT probably never had any idea these nice white people who patted his back, solved his business problems and gave him all sorts of credit facilities were some of the planet's worst crims.
 
quadraginta said:
I wasn't suggesting that they should. Just that any effort to keep responses from appearing "political" is wasted.
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But it's not wasted unless we fall into to the propaganda trap that Trump's base is all that powerful. They aren't. But if the news and the Democrats act like the "base" is some magically powerful group, they gain power from that.
 
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