Mueller Investigation pt4

[The Big Dog]

So witness tampering is protected speech?

The number of major problems with that sentence are amazing!

Rule of so, switching burden, loaded question, begging the question, and that is just off the top of my head!

Oh well, none of those in the post I was replying to were remotely witness tampering.

 

[Paul2]

At this point, I don't remember the details of the Comey firing, and not really interested in going back on that detour in this thread.

I wasn't participating in the beginning of the thread, sorry if the Comey firing is a re-run.

But, the Comey firing is, perhaps, the central issue in any possible application of the law against impeding or influencing the investigation, so perhaps I can be forgiven for re-working old ground.

The other things are not only not overt acts, I would think one would have a real first amendment problem trying to criminalize bitching about the fuzz.

Not sure how you can say the other things are not overt acts when I didn't describe them, and specifically included activities as well as conversations. And, not all of the conversations in the press were merely bitching about the fuzz.

Furthermore, denials of wrongdoing are perfectly fine, but any president who comments negatively on an investigation into that president's possible illegal behavior should be viewed with great suspicion.

Remember, Trump doesn't know if the investigation will exonerate him or not. If we assume for the sake of argument that Trump is innocent, that gives him little rationale for complaining about the investigation because investigations can be proper when people are innocent as well as when they are guilty.

 

[acbytesla]

Are you asserting that Trump's tweet uses "intimidation or threatens" the witness?

Wow, I don't see that at all, but feel free to make your case!

Exactly! What did Trump tweet today? That Cohen should go to prison and serve the entire sentence. And at the same time Trump is dangling a pardon to Manafort. Never mind that Manafort was convicted of far more serious crimes including multiple counts of Tax evasion and Bank Fraud.

 

[acbytesla]

It's amazing given how poorly Individual One treated him, it took this long for him to turn.

That Trump didn't treat Cohen sweetly and tenderly is one of Trump's biggest mistake. That he let Cohen dangle in the wind was monumentally stupid.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Actually, never mind. Nothing good will come of it, and it'll just waste everybody's time.

 

[acbytesla]

FWIW, despite minor disagreements amongst commentators, the general consensus appears to be that the tweet in and of itself would be difficult to prosecute, but would absolutely be part of a larger pattern of obstruction

Precisely. If we consider one tweet or one statement or one action by itself, then obstruction of justice or witness tampering would not be provable. But when you line up dozens, probably hundreds of these statements and tweets and actions then it becomes ridiculous or dishonest to think otherwise.

 

[smartcooky]

Precisely. If we consider one tweet or one statement or one action by itself, then obstruction of justice or witness tampering would not be provable. But when you line up dozens, probably hundreds of these statements and tweets and actions then it becomes ridiculous or dishonest to think otherwise.

Although publicly stating that he fired Comey because Comey refused to stop the Russia investigation is pretty much an admission to obstruction of justice right there, on its own.

 

[acbytesla]

Although publicly stating that he fired Comey because Comey refused to stop the Russia investigation is pretty much an admission to obstruction of justice right there, on its own.

Yes. I agree. But thats just one count. It's more than arguable that Trump is guilty of dozens of counts of obstructing justice and witness tampering as our friend Rachel pointed out with her comparison to Nixon.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That Trump didn't treat Cohen sweetly and tenderly is one of Trump's biggest mistake. That he let Cohen dangle in the wind was monumentally stupid.

Trump is unable to help himself. That's how his pathologic narcissism manifests itself.

He would have had to kiss up to Cohen earlier. He's mentally incapable. He expects people beneath him to worship him without Trump having to acknowledge anything back.

This is not hyperbole, Trump simply cannot make such gestures. If Cohen had stood up to Mueller first, things could be different.

When it comes to those he considers his peers, Putin, Prince whatshisname, probably Xi, he acts accordingly. But other world leaders, they don't rank, expecially Merkel because of Trump's condescension to every female. May probably defers to Trump enough, but you know Merkel doesn't.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Looks like we'll be getting quite a bit more info this week:

Special counsel Robert Mueller's team is poised to make public a sentencing memo about former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort by Friday, special counsel spokesman Peter Carr told Yahoo News on Monday.

Mueller is also set to release memos about former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn and Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen this week, which are all likely to provide greater insight into the inner workings of the special counsel's probe into possible ties between Russia and the Trump presidential campaign.

Linky.

 

[acbytesla]

Looks like we'll be getting quite a bit more info this week:

Special counsel Robert Mueller's team is poised to make public a sentencing memo about former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort by Friday, special counsel spokesman Peter Carr told Yahoo News on Monday.

Mueller is also set to release memos about former Trump national security adviser Michael Flynn and Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen this week, which are all likely to provide greater insight into the inner workings of the special counsel's probe into possible ties between Russia and the Trump presidential campaign.

Linky.

They were talking about this on the news shows and it was speculated that Mueller is laying a lot out there in the courts to prevent the Trump Administration from making Mueller's report classified and keeping it from becoming public. By detailing a lot of it in the sentencing memos, he gets to make much of it public.

 

[plague311]

The questions are of course, who the heck is the guy who was quoted, and who gives a ding dong damn about what he says anyhow?

You do have the basic requirement of clicking on the ******* link, which of course answers both of those questions. Don't pass your laziness off as other people being incompetent.

Again, just because you don't care doesn't mean that the tweet isn't both A) relevant to the conversation at hand and B) an educated opinion from a lawyer that can be added to the collection of opinions from lawyers on the topic.

Personifies Danth's Law, yet can't do research.

 

[The Big Dog]

You do have the basic requirement of clicking on the ******* link, which of course answers both of those questions. Don't pass your laziness off as other people being incompetent.

Again, just because you don't care doesn't mean that the tweet isn't both A) relevant to the conversation at hand and B) an educated opinion from a lawyer that can be added to the collection of opinions from lawyers on the topic.

Personifies Danth's Law, yet can't do research.

Lol. When I ask who this guy is and why we should care what he says, our skeptical correspondent declares that he is a lawyer on Twitter.

And then declares that I can’t do research.

Lol! Say, where does this guy practice law, for how long, and how do we know he is not a dog?



Hilarious!

 

[plague311]

Lol. When I ask who this guy is and why we should care what he says, our skeptical correspondent declares that he is a lawyer on Twitter.

And then declares that I can’t do research.

Lol! Say, where does this guy practice law, for how long, and how do we know he is not a dog?



Hilarious!

Don't. Don't care what he says. No one is asking you to, this thread doesn't revolve around you. I found out who he was and where he worked pretty quick. I've had to do the same for multiple posts around here. Fairly common.

 

[Trebuchet]

Trump is unable to help himself. That's how his pathologic narcissism manifests itself.

He would have had to kiss up to Cohen earlier. He's mentally incapable. He expects people beneath him to worship him without Trump having to acknowledge anything back.

This is not hyperbole, Trump simply cannot make such gestures. If Cohen had stood up to Mueller first, things could be different.

When it comes to those he considers his peers, Putin, Prince whatshisname, probably Xi, he acts accordingly. But other world leaders, they don't rank, expecially Merkel because of Trump's condescension to every female. May probably defers to Trump enough, but you know Merkel doesn't.

We should go easy on him then, because of his handicap. {/BtC}

 

[The Big Dog]

Don't. Don't care what he says. No one is asking you to, this thread doesn't revolve around you. I found out who he was and where he worked pretty quick. I've had to do the same for multiple posts around here. Fairly common.

Hmmm, rather than answer the questions, you said that the basic requirement was click on the link, which I did (of course) which was a link to a single tweet...

Hmmm, it would appear that is not what one had to do...

Hmmm, I gotta ask, were you lying in the first post, the second, or both?

Tick tock

 

[plague311]

Hmmm, rather than answer the questions, you said that the basic requirement was click on the link, which I did (of course) which was a link to a single tweet...

Hmmm, it would appear that is not what one had to do...

Hmmm, I gotta ask, were you lying in the first post, the second, or both?

Tick tock

They were questions that didn't require answering. How did we know he wasn't a dog? He can type, and has a twitter account. You really need that answered? Is this what you're crying about? That people aren't commenting with a full ******* bio of the person their linking? Ok. Sweet point bro. Got any new snark for today?

I see that we're going to get a ton of new information with the prison sentences of Trumps cronies. Care to comment on that? How are you going to handwave those convictions away? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[varwoche]

I'm with TBD on this. I'm not a fan of naked links.

I generally expect a link to be accompanied by a blurb that gives me a hint as to why I should click, and a quote that supports the poster's point. The quote identifies the writer. If it's a random person on the internet whose name has no significance, I'm a-ok with quote=RandomPersonOnTheInternet or whatever.

On top of which, when I click Twitter links, I frequently find myself confused as to what I'm supposed to be looking at, and who said what.

 

[plague311]

I'm with TBD on this. I'm not a fan of naked links.

I generally expect a link to be accompanied by a blurb that gives me a hint as to why I should click, and a quote that supports the poster's point. The quote identifies the writer. If it's a random person on the internet whose name has no significance, I'm a-ok with quote=RandomPersonOnTheInternet or whatever.

On top of which, when I click Twitter links, I frequently find myself confused as to what I'm supposed to be looking at, and who said what.

A link with the individuals name and the word "law" that specifically states he's had multiple clients that have been charged with a crime for less than what the president does, needs more clarification? That, for some reason, isn't explicitly clear enough as to it's intent and who is writing it?

LoL ok, I give.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

There's a Simpson's episode where Chief Wiggum comes around to grill the mob guys about a hijacked truck of cigarettes. The mob boss goes "what's a truck?"

That's about the level of willfull ignorance on display when supposedly intelligent people spend half the discussion acting like their IQ is lower than their age.

ETA: Especially the ones who repeatedly insist they are god's gift to legal knowledge in personified form here to edify us.