Mueller Investigation pt 7

JoeMorgue said:
You're drowning in a rip-tide. Two lifeguards spot you. One starts sprinting toward you (In slow-mo while the theme song from Baywatch plays I'm assuming) but when he reaches the water's edge decides he'd rather let you drown. That's Susan Collins.

The other one starts to turn toward you, but when they reach the water's edge they remember they don't know how to swim and have to stand there and watch you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.
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If I may correct your analogy, since a lifeguard who can't swim is pretty silly, he tries his best to reach you but the tide takes you too far and he can't reach you before you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

Would you not rather have the one who tried, just in case they succeed?
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
No, it's failing to remove him form office that is derelict. Impeaching him has turned out to be a waste of time that has also contributed to winning the next election and keeping him in office. Impeachment, at least at the moment, appears to have been worse than a waste of time.
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Oh noes but we're just not allowed to say that even though... I mean it didn't remove him from office and made his popularity go up.

People keep acting like the Impeachment worked and we're pretending it didn't and not the other way around.
 
Belz... said:
If I may correct your analogy, since a lifeguard who can't swim is pretty silly, he tries his best to reach you but the tide takes you too far and he can't reach you before you drown. That's Nancy Pelosi.

Would you not rather have the one who tried, just in case they succeed?
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If she tries her best every time and still doesn't succeed it in ever saving a drowning person, at a certain point you just stop paying her to be a lifeguard, fault or no fault, good intentions or bad.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
No, it's failing to remove him form office that is derelict. Impeaching him has turned out to be a waste of time that has also contributed to winning the next election and keeping him in office. Impeachment, at least at the moment, appears to have been worse than a waste of time.
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Can someone explain why it contributes to his re-election?
 
JoeMorgue said:
If she tries her best every time and still doesn't succeed it in ever saving a drowning person, at a certain point you just stop paying her to be a lifeguard, fault or no fault, good intentions or bad.
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So what's the solution? **** lifeguards?

I'm sorry but I can't subscribe to your defeatist idea, here. One's got to stand for something even if others don't.
 
The believe that the incomplete Impeachment has made a Trump re-election more likely doesn't seem to be founded on much.
Plenty of voters believe that Washington is broken, and the fact that a legitimate Impeachment can get shut down along party lines is very much in line with this.
Only the voters who want the Federal Government to stay paralysed will think that the Impeachment was a failure.
The others will consider it a rallying cry to flip the Senate.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
No, it's failing to remove him form office that is derelict. Impeaching him has turned out to be a waste of time that has also contributed to winning the next election and keeping him in office. Impeachment, at least at the moment, appears to have been worse than a waste of time.
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Nonsense. Impeachment is what the electorate wanted and the electorate will make the Senate pay the price for the sham trial they held to protect Trump.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Nonsense. Impeachment is what the electorate wanted and the electorate will make the Senate pay the price for the sham trial they held to protect Trump.
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Careful now. That's almost a definitive claim with a fixed specific point in time instead of the constantly being pushed back floating "at some point in the future that's never now something is going to happen we're going to start winning."

The Republicans keep control of the Senate in 2020, which is statistically likely to happen, what happens then?

At what point do we admit what we are doing is not working?
 
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Belz... said:
So what's the solution? **** lifeguards?

I'm sorry but I can't subscribe to your defeatist idea, here. One's got to stand for something even if others don't.
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I'll never understand why "X is going to happen" is defeatist but "X is going to happen but it's vitally important to pretend it's not and fight to the end" is not.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Careful now. That's almost a definitive claim with a fixed specific point in time instead of the constantly being pushed back floating "at some point in the future that's never now something is going to happen."

The Republicans keep control of the Senate in 2020, which is statistically likely to happen, what happens then?

At what point do we admit what we are doing is not working?
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The other option of non-impeachment definitely wouldn't have worked as it would have demotivated the electorate to vote at all in the next election. The only way Republicans win is to cheat at this point, and that's exactly what they are doing. All we can do is try to get enough people to vote to overcome it.
 
JoeMorgue said:
I'll never understand why "X is going to happen" is defeatist but "X is going to happen but it's vitally important to pretend it's not and fight to the end" is not.
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Considering the definition of the word "defeatist", I would think that is obvious. Plus X is going to happen IF WE DO NOTHING. At least if you try to do something about it, the odds are marginally better.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Nonsense. Impeachment is what the electorate wanted and the electorate will make the Senate pay the price for the sham trial they held to protect Trump.
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Sorry, you appear to be reading polls from another planet. Even those polls that showed a slim majority didn't show enough to be outside the margin of error. And seriously, do you think the Senators that voted against removal from office live in the state where the people who wanted Trump removed live? That's simply deranged if you think that.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/
 
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The 538 link does not support the allegation that impeachment strengthened Trump's support.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Can someone explain why it contributes to his re-election?
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Because it raised his popularity as measured by his approval rating. This has been said multiple times.
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True, his approval rating has gone up slightly in some polling. And, Trump has supposedly used the impeachment proceedings as a way to generate additional campaign contributions.

https://time.com/5744415/trump-campaign-impeachment-facebook-advantage/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/05/impeachment-blockbuster-fundraising-lawmakers-110770

However, that doesn't necessarily mean the impeachment was a mistake, for a couple of reasons:

- It may have caused Trump supporters to rally around the racist, but it also may help energize Democrats as well. (Many democrats also saw an increase in fundraising during the impeachment proceedings)

- Its hard to know how the alternative might have gone. Ok, so Trump's approval ratings ticked up by a little bit. If they didn't impeach, it may still have gone up. Or it may have stayed the same.

- It may have a secondary benefit on some of the congressional races. Senators like Collins (who was already dealing with low approval ratings) now has the stigma of her "Trump learned a lesson. He didn't? My Mistake". This may play a part in her 2020 senate race.

Overall, I don't think we can say whether there was any net benefit or harm, and we probably won't for some time. Trump's approval ratings increased in some polls, but there is no guarantee that will be sustained. And it should be noted that many polls showing increase in his approval ratings are national, which doesn't mean he benefited at all in battleground states like Florida or Wisc. (For example, his approval rating in Michigan was 42% last summer. After impeachment, his approval is... 42%.) And Trump may have 'survived' impeachment with his support base intact, but between Trump's questionable actions and the possibility of future revelations, he may still get damaged.

https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/
 
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