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Most Overrated Artists...

Remember a while back when those prints of little kids or fuzzy animals with gigantically oversized eyes were popular - in the way that Elvis on black velvet was popular. What I want to know is this - suppose some "real" artist decided to mimic those paintings or the Elvis paintings, but did it with the express intention to make some artistic point, would it be real art then? Because the artist's intentions were ironic, would that make it art? Or suppose someone mimicked Norman Rockwell as a commentary on the work of Norman Rockwell and that perspective on American life - would it be real art then?
 
The most overrated artist I've run across is my 10 year old nephew. He scrawls out a stick figure ninja monkey fighting a blob monster, and everybody oohs and aahs at it. Heck, I could do that, and nobody would put it on their refrigerator. His mastery of form and balance are highly overrated. But if I were to tell him that, he'd have one of his artist tantrums.
 
People said they don't like minimalism...

but... most people like this minimalist art.

A lot of people don't like modern art because it's NIH (Not invented here).

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo28/kittynh/sumi.jpg

the Japanese have minimalism down. Now picture how revolutionary it was when Japenese art showed up in the fussy world of Victorain art. Early objections to minimalism....it was influenced by ASIANS! Non Christian art!

I like it. It's "nothing" explained away as minimalism I object to. One of the artists mentioned in this thread spent the last ten years of his life painting only in black. If he was an author, it would be a simple case of writer's block.
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone here heard of Dru Blair? I'm told he's the best air brush artist in the world and the following is supposedly NOT a photograph, but rather a painting (but, to be honest, I don't believe it):

ticastepwebno3.jpg


It's one thing to airbrush blemishes and the like away in small portions, but to create a perfect likeness of a woman like this by hand and without any kind of photographic background to paint over is hard for me to believe.
 
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I've seen dozens of Blair's step-by-step articles and yes, the guy is very good. I have the full magazine article detailing the above but can't find it at the moment.
 
Sefartst, I'm in the process of replying to you. We'll see when I'm satisfied, but for now it's not nearly clear enough.
 
Sefarst,
What is the meaning in this airbrushed piece, which the artist intended, and which viewers can determine independently?
 
It's one thing to airbrush blemishes and the like away in small portions, but to create a perfect likeness of a woman like this by hand and without any kind of photographic background to paint over is hard for me to believe.

I'm not a big fan of airbrush, but I have no difficulty believing that someone could do this. I've seen many other very realistic works that inspired the same sort of comment, "Looks just like a photo..."

Like some of the commenters here, though, that's when I chime in with "But is it art." I feel it's a craft. The main artistic skill required is that the "artist" has the talent to isolate and translate the visual elements from the original photo onto a flat plain of his/her own. That's not so easy. You're copying from a photograph, but you see it in perspective and interpret it in 3D in your mind. It's a craft. A highly polished and finely tuned craft, but a craft nevertheless.

This is similar to the great portraiture of the 19th and 20th century. If you see the portraits in a gallery of presidents or prime ministers, they get decidedly more realistic in later years. But how many of those artists are known? They'd perfected a craft, best exemplified by Rembrandt IMHO, of taking a 3D living object and transferring that, via paints and brushes, onto a flat plain. But by the mid-19th century that had become a craft more than an art. And by the time (say) Turner came along, the "artists" were going off in other directions than abject realism. Trying to catch the importance of the light in a sunset, rather than trying to duplicate it, thereby leading to impressionism and the "modern" era.

A bit of an aside, but related: The Wyeths have been mentioned, above. I think you have to sort of stick with Andrew in discussing art. And if you've seen his stuff up close, the "it looks so real" comments don't really hold. Not necessarily my cup of cha, but there's obvious artistry at work and you can see his technique. I think the rest of the family are Wyeth, Inc. There's an emotional aspect of Andrew Wyeth's work. Similarly, look at Hooper. The realism is only the first thing an untrained eye sees. It's the mood that he set in some of them that is the emotional hook for me.
 
Sefarst,
What is the meaning in this airbrushed piece, which the artist intended, and which viewers can determine independently?

I see this piece and I think I'm struck by the interplay of dark and light areas much as the constant pull of your morality against the pragmatic nature of the id as best described by , "Payday".
 
Speaking of Andrew Wyeth, I remember seeing a documentary about him - one of my favorite paintings is Christina's World - and it appears he had relatively little natural drawing talent. Some people can duplicate what they see onto paper with relatively little effort - a gift I have always been very jealous off. It seems Andrew had to work very hard to produce his drawings. I went through drawing phase many years ago. It was only through very extensive effort that I was able to produce anything halfway decent. I don't really know the connection between natural drawing ability and artistic ability. My ex-sister in law from many years back could effortlessly recreate any scene or object with a pencil and paper, but she had little artistic sensibility.
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone here heard of Dru Blair? I'm told he's the best air brush artist in the world and the following is supposedly NOT a photograph, but rather a painting (but, to be honest, I don't believe it):

[qimg]http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4441/ticastepwebno3.jpg[/qimg]

It's one thing to airbrush blemishes and the like away in small portions, but to create a perfect likeness of a woman like this by hand and without any kind of photographic background to paint over is hard for me to believe.

That's...amazing. Hard for me to believe, also. Detail right down to the pores in the skin?

Has he been scrutinized for trickery?

his other stuff:

http://www.drublair.com/comersus/store/comersus_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=52

Doesn't look anywhere near as realistic as that portrait.
 
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Minimalism makes sense in a sculptural context; the pyramids can easily qualify. That's where the modern sense of the word came from; large, geometric sculptures.

The Zen-influenced Japanese brush paintings are different, to my mind; they are representational. There's a world of difference between a well-drawn stalk of bamboo and a blank canvas covered with a single color.
 
Sefarst,
What is the meaning in this airbrushed piece, which the artist intended, and which viewers can determine independently?

To be honest, I actually wouldn't call her portrait art either. I would say the point of it was purely intellectual without a true message behind it. Rather, he was just seeing how realistic he could make something look (if it's even an airbrush, something I'm not yet convinced of).
 
To be honest, I actually wouldn't call her portrait art either. I would say the point of it was purely intellectual without a true message behind it. Rather, he was just seeing how realistic he could make something look (if it's even an airbrush, something I'm not yet convinced of).

You obviously have a right to define personally any word you want, but if not art, what do you call intellectual and technical excercises like this and minimalist paintings?

Art schools, museums, art critics and the whole of the establishment has considered this stuff art for almost exactly 100 years now. I'll agree with you, that it creates a bit of confusion that different kinds of art have such drastically different goals and expects drastically different things from an audience, but in terms of pragmatic use of the term, the border between them is pretty flexible. Each approach has more in common with the others, than it has with disciplines outside of the arts.

If you rule them out from the category of art, you make it that much harder to communicate with or learn from museums, or any part of the art establishment.

If the art world were to adopt your use of the term, it could only make things more difficult. Say I want to study color to paint pure color paintings and my friend wants to paint bowls of fruit that symbolize the decay of society. Do we need to go to two different schools? Should different institutions be concerned with showing our work? Why?
 
You obviously have a right to define personally any word you want, but if not art, what do you call intellectual and technical excercises like this and minimalist paintings?

I'd call them painting, photographing, sculpting, etc. If I go see the Egyptian pyramids and take a picture of myself standing in front of them for my scrapbook, that's not art. If I'm so overwhelmed by the site of them that I spend time finding the best angle, the best lighting, maybe I wait for sunset to have the various colors displayed across the background, etc. because I want to communicate the sense of awe I felt, that's art.

Art schools, museums, art critics and the whole of the establishment has considered this stuff art for almost exactly 100 years now. I'll agree with you, that it creates a bit of confusion that different kinds of art have such drastically different goals and expects drastically different things from an audience, but in terms of pragmatic use of the term, the border between them is pretty flexible. Each approach has more in common with the others, than it has with disciplines outside of the arts.

If someone paints portraits of people, coldly trying to make them look as realistic as possible just for the sake of saying, "here is a picture of person X," I would say that has more in common with a person who just snaps wedding pictures for the purpose of just documenting the wedding. If a minimalist paints a canvas a solid color without a true message that can be expressed through the painting, then I'd say he has more in common with a house painter.

If you rule them out from the category of art, you make it that much harder to communicate with or learn from museums, or any part of the art establishment.

Again, maybe I'm a Philistine, but I don't feel like I've had this problem. If anything, this attitude of mine helps expedite my trips to museums so I don't waste too much time reading tea leaves by desperately trying to read some kind of meaning into the paintings I look at.

If the art world were to adopt your use of the term, it could only make things more difficult. Say I want to study color to paint pure color paintings and my friend wants to paint bowls of fruit that symbolize the decay of society. Do we need to go to two different schools? Should different institutions be concerned with showing our work? Why?

Well your friend would need to decide if he could really communicate a message about the decay of society by just painting a bowl of fruit. You don't need to go to two different schools though, the basic skills can be the same. The difference is how you use those skills, how you arrange the principles you've learned on a canvas and how you communicate with the viewer.

I understand your objection, how can galleries and museums delineate between real, worthy art and simple copying methods or empty chaos-opn-canvas? A valid point, but art galleries and museums all ready do this. They don't hang just anything up. I'm only suggesting that they don't pay lip service and call something art which is clearly empty and rather pointless. I'm not saying they shouldn't hang it up somewhere, certainly the Dru Blair painting (if it's really a painting) might be worth hanging up just to demonstrate his skill, but I would suggest it be hung up only under that label and not as art.

Just my opinions, as always...
 
As much as I like Leonardo, I think the Mona Lisa is overrated. It generates news stories fairly regularly, attracts thousands of tourists, gets theorized over constantly. It has become symbolic of art itself. It's a fine painting, but I've never gotten why it's venerated to such a level. As much as I've tried to understand people's reverence for it, I can't work up more than a lukewarm feeling for it. That weird little smile doesn't pique my interest. If I'm ever fortunate enough to visit the Louvre, she won't be on my must-see list.
 
Out of curiosity, has anyone here heard of Dru Blair? I'm told he's the best air brush artist in the world and the following is supposedly NOT a photograph, but rather a painting (but, to be honest, I don't believe it).
The rewards of focus and discipline. In his case, being able to broadcast below average looking women he's thinking about..

It's one thing to airbrush blemishes and the like away in small portions, but to create a perfect likeness of a woman like this by hand and without any kind of photographic background to paint over is hard for me to believe.
Yes, it is possible to do that without references. The limitation, it being 2DCG is he can't do anything else with it, it's static. The same result could be accomplished in about five hours by an average CG character artist at any major studio. This is a 'basic' photorealistic setup. Artist unknown, but it was a pro using Maya due to the lack of scene clutter and lighting:

749me8.jpg


Photorealism is the bane of CG though. I completed this in about five hours. Mind you this is not a painting, but a digital set:

mediumofmotionsh6.jpg
 
As much as I like Leonardo, I think the Mona Lisa is overrated. It generates news stories fairly regularly, attracts thousands of tourists, gets theorized over constantly. It has become symbolic of art itself. It's a fine painting, but I've never gotten why it's venerated to such a level. As much as I've tried to understand people's reverence for it, I can't work up more than a lukewarm feeling for it. That weird little smile doesn't pique my interest. If I'm ever fortunate enough to visit the Louvre, she won't be on my must-see list.

I think a lot of the value of the Mona Lisa is that it is one of only about 15 works by Da Vinci that survived. It's also, as far as I know the simplest piece, and the only one not showing a religious topic, both of which make it easier to appreciate it's technical innovations.

One important aspect is that Leonardo was one of the first artists to formally study anatomy by dissecting corpses, a practice which put him in great jeopardy with the powers at the time. Compare his anatomy with earlier artists like Giotto

Of course the earlier work is still beautiful and interesting, but ti was only with the high renaissance painters, (especially with the innovations of da Vinci) that realistic anatomy and perspective were even available as tools that artists could use.

He was also a great innovator in the application of the relatively new oil-based paints, creating methods of blending and working in layers that are essential to many oil painters today.

I hope that might be useful.
 

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