Split Thread Mormons and marriage

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I do. It's a big part of my efforts here on JREF.

Try harder.

This is entirely irrelevant to the point at hand.

It is relevant.

What evasiveness?

What year was The Manifesto issued?

What year is it now?

If you aren't being evasive, this will be easy for you.

However, your entire post is simply an attempt, once more, to be evasive.

This is coming from someone who can't tell me what year it is.

I have answered all questions put to me in an honest fashion and to the best of my knowledge. You?

No, actually, you did not.

I'm waiting. Evasion noted.

Right back at ya.

 

[RandFan]

What year was The Manifesto issued?

Which one? The first was in 1890. The second was in 1904.

How many years ago did the earthly practice of polygamy come to an end in the SLC-based branch of mormonism?

I honestly don't know. Do you? Why won't you tell us?

What year is it now?

2011

If you aren't being evasive, this will be easy for you.

And your answers to my questions?

This is coming from someone who can't tell me what year it is.

You didn't ask me what year the Manifesto was issued? Your question was vague.

No, actually, you did not.

Actually I did answer the question you asked. Had you asked when the Manifesto was issued I would have told you the first was in 1890 and the second in 1904. YOU DIDN'T ASK THAT QUESTION.

This is the question you asked:

How many years ago did the earthly practice of polygamy come to an end in the SLC-based branch of mormonism?

You don't know the answer to that question and neither do I. The Manifesto didn't end the practice in SLC.

Right back at ya.

I'm here ready and waiting to answer your questions. What about my questions?

WILL YOU ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS? Or will you try to change the subject and shift the focus again.

1. Are the quotes in my previous post above correct?
2. Is polygamy still part of Mormon theology (even if it is not practiced)?
3. Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?
4. Why use logic and reason if you only use it selectively?
5. Who is the father of ALL lies?

I'm waiting.

 

[bikerdruid]

So, for those keeping score. I have answered all questions put to me in an honest fashion and to the best of my knowledge. You?

I'm waiting. Evasion noted.

i'm most curious about the answer to :
Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?

is this actually promoted in mormon culture?
it would certainly explain some things.
inquiring minds need to know....

 

[RandFan]

Right back at ya.

Is it honest to shift the focus of the discussion and refuse to answer the questions?

Come on, why won't you answer the questions? I've answered yours. Why do you get to demand that I address your issues all the while you get to refuse to address my questions? Why can't you answer the questions?

1. Are the quotes in my previous post above correct?
2. Is polygamy still part of Mormon theology (even if it is not practiced)?
3. Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?
4. Why use logic and reason if you only use it selectively?
5. Who is the father of ALL lies?

 

[RandFan]

i'm most curious about the answer to :
Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?

is this actually promoted in mormon culture?
it would certainly explain some things.
inquiring minds need to know....

Yes, like the Church of Scientology and other cults, Mormonism has a doctrine of "Milk before meat", which is to say, "not the whole truth" until a person is ready. Would you want important information withheld from you until after you joined an organization?

See: Lying for the Lord.

"A half-truth presented as the whole truth is a complete untruth." - J.I. Packer

 

[bikerdruid]

Yes, like the Church of Scientology and other cults, Mormonism has a doctrine of "Milk before meat", which is to say, "not the whole truth" until a person is ready. Would you want important information withheld from you until after you joined an organization?

See: Lying for the Lord.

"A half-truth presented as the whole truth is a complete untruth." - J.I. Packer

thanks for that.
it does explain a lot to me.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

At the risk of pissing off RandFan even more, this is my own personal opinion on polygamy.

Wether practiced in this life, or the next it fulfills a necessary function. God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a species consisting of two genders and made both equally dependent on each other for their salvation. Unfortunately, one gender has a slight lead over the other in birth rates. If marriage is essential to ones salvation, then among those living today there will be 140 million souls that will be out of luck through no fault of their own unless there is a mechanism in place to allow them to achieve the benefits of marriage.

It is not there to allow predators like Warren Jeffs a means of reppressing their prey, it is there for the sake of those females who deserve a fair shot at the brass ring who might otherwise be unfairly denied.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

See: Lying for the Lord.

lol@ Gerald and Sandra Tanner

 

[bikerdruid]

At the risk of pissing off RandFan even more, this is my own personal opinion on polygamy.

Wether practiced in this life, or the next it fulfills a necessary function. God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a species consisting of two genders and made both equally dependent on each other for their salvation. Unfortunately, one gender has a slight lead over the other in birth rates. If marriage is essential to ones salvation, then among those living today there will be 140 million souls that will be out of luck through no fault of their own unless there is a mechanism in place to allow them to achieve the benefits of marriage.

It is not there to allow predators like Warren Jeffs a means of reppressing their prey, it is there for the sake of those females who deserve a fair shot at the brass ring who might otherwise be unfairly denied.

in mormon dogma, is marriage essential for salvation?

 

[RandFan]

At the risk of pissing off RandFan even more, this is my own personal opinion on polygamy.

Thanks. Unfortunately it doesn't answer my question. When I gave you an honest answer to a vague question you said I didn't answer it. So you gave me a more direct question (still vague as there were two manifestos). But fine.

God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a species consisting of two genders and made both equally dependent on each other for their salvation.

And intersexed people? How do they fit in god's plan of salvation? Are they allowed to marry in the temple? Can a person with a vagina and a penis marry in the Temple? Can that person be saved? Why doesn't god just make certain the an equal number of people from both sexes are born?

It is not there to allow predators like Warren Jeffs a means of reppressing their prey, it is there for the sake of those females who deserve a fair shot at the brass ring who might otherwise be unfairly denied.

1. Are the quotes in my previous post above correct?
2. Is polygamy still part of Mormon theology (even if it is not practiced)?
3. Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?
4. Why use logic and reason if you only use it selectively?
5. Who is the father of ALL lies?

 

[RandFan]

lol@ Gerald and Sandra Tanner

Ad hominem. Do you deny the "milk before meat" policy of the Church?

1. Are the quotes in my previous post above correct?
2. Is polygamy still part of Mormon theology (even if it is not practiced)?
3. Are acts of duplicity, deception and evasion intellectually honest?
4. Why use logic and reason if you only use it selectively?
5. Who is the father of ALL lies?

 

[RandFan]

in mormon dogma, is marriage essential for salvation?

Not an easy question to answer. There are three levels of heaven in Mormonism. To reach the highest kingdom (Celestial) you must be married and according to all of the prophets before the first Manifesto polygamy was requisite. Many members and leaders today believe that polygamy is requisite to reaching the highest kingdom.

According to Mormonism you can be saved bikerdruid but unless you marry a woman, even if you don't love her, you may never go to the highest kingdom. Like the previous policy that forbade the blacks from holding the priesthood, it's a built in discrimination.

And that fact is pernicious. Bullying of gays and lesbians is pervasive. Teens are most interested in how someone is a lesser person than they are pleas of compassion from leaders.

 

[MatildaGage]

If God/Jesus thought gay marriage was such a sin, why did they never mention it in the bible?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

At the risk of pissing off RandFan even more, this is my own personal opinion on polygamy.

Wether practiced in this life, or the next it fulfills a necessary function. God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a species consisting of two genders and made both equally dependent on each other for their salvation. Unfortunately, one gender has a slight lead over the other in birth rates. If marriage is essential to ones salvation, then among those living today there will be 140 million souls that will be out of luck through no fault of their own unless there is a mechanism in place to allow them to achieve the benefits of marriage.

It is not there to allow predators like Warren Jeffs a means of reppressing their prey, it is there for the sake of those females who deserve a fair shot at the brass ring who might otherwise be unfairly denied.

This reminds me of a particular passage in Isaiah, that I have some times wondered about. Isaiah 4:1 to be specific.

1. And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

In times of war, men tend to be killed off in greater numbers than women, resulting in an imbalance. I don't know if it has historically ever been as bad as this, but this passage seems to speak of a time when the imbalance will be so great that there will be seven women for every man, and that women will be desperate for some of the benefits of marriage, to the point of being willing to forego other expected benefits.

Do you have any thoughts on this passage?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If God/Jesus thought gay marriage was such a sin, why did they never mention it in the bible?

Marriage is mentioned enough in the Bible to give a very clear idea of what it is, and what its basic purpose is. “Gay marriage” doesn't fit the meaning or purpose of marriage, as given in the Bible. It doesn't even come anywhere close to doing so.

Further, every where that homosexuality is mentioned in the Bible, it is very harshly condemned as evil, in the same class as bestiality and adultery.

There is no reason to expect that “gay marriage” would have been mentioned in the Bible. It's a combination of two concepts that simply do not go together.

 

[bikerdruid]

If God/Jesus thought gay marriage was such a sin, why did they never mention it in the bible?

leviticus verses call queers "an abomination before the lord," and required us to be killed.
strangely enough, most christians claim that jesus gave a new law, so all of the prohibitions in the old law were 'repealed', except for this one.
so now you can wear garments made of mixed fabric, eat lobster and shrimp, enjoy a juicy cheezeburger, but you can't be queer.

 

[bikerdruid]

as an after thought, how does mormon dogma deal with queers?

 

[MatildaGage]

At the risk of pissing off RandFan even more, this is my own personal opinion on polygamy.

Wether practiced in this life, or the next it fulfills a necessary function. God in his infinite wisdom chose to create a species consisting of two genders and made both equally dependent on each other for their salvation. Unfortunately, one gender has a slight lead over the other in birth rates. If marriage is essential to ones salvation, then among those living today there will be 140 million souls that will be out of luck through no fault of their own unless there is a mechanism in place to allow them to achieve the benefits of marriage.

It is not there to allow predators like Warren Jeffs a means of reppressing their prey, it is there for the sake of those females who deserve a fair shot at the brass ring who might otherwise be unfairly denied.

So in your personal opinion, did God deliberately design the birth rate disparity, or was it a mistake or oversight?

 

[MatildaGage]

leviticus calls queers "an abomination before the lord," and required us to be killed.
strangely enough, most christians claim that jesus gave a new law, so all of the prohibitions in the old law were 'repealed', except for this one.
so now you can wear garments made of mixed fabric, eat lobster and shrimp, enjoy a juicy cheezeburger, but you can't be queer.

IIRC no scripture mentions gay marriage.

 

[Furcifer]

as an after thought, how does mormon dogma deal with queers?

Seems like a good way of dealing with that male/female disparity. Obviously we need more lesbians