More On Iraqi Mass Graves

[Tmy]

It was ongoing. Saddam continued to oppress, imprison, and kill minorities and political enemies right up to the invasion.

P.S. You don't want to compare national service with me, do you?

Well DUH! What do you think happens when you mess with "the man" . You get killed! How do you think they stay in charge.

Its happening in israel/palistine, in the new Iraq, and other fun spots. Is it Ok when you bury them one at a time vs. mass graves.


ps; I didnt mean you personally pat on the back. I meant the country in General.

And hey! Ive done service to my fellow county men. You donthave to be in the armed services to serve your nation.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Do they have an estimation for the Kurds that were gassed in this period?

I'm wondering about that number from the genocide the Adminstration keeps mentioning in comparision to the dead US soldiers in Iraq.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Do they have an estimation for the Kurds that were gassed in this period?

source 1 Estimates of casualties range from several hundred to 7,000 people.

source 2 On that day, 5,000 innocent civilians, 75% women and children, immediately perished.

source 3 Between and 4,000 and 5,000 people, almost all civilians, died either at the time or shortly thereafter.

 

[Ed]

Interesting. I read of a stab at drawing moral equivilance between an accused Isreali (under investigation) and Saddam.

 

[Kodiak]

ps; I didnt mean you personally pat on the back. I meant the country in General.

Fair enough. Thanks.

And hey! Ive done service to my fellow county men. You donthave to be in the armed services to serve your nation.

I agree completely. That's why I said national service.

 

[Tmy]

Interesting. I read of a stab at drawing moral equivilance between an accused Isreali (under investigation) and Saddam.

I was comparing terrible behavior around the globe. Someone mentioned "a father that people can be so personal as to put a handgun to a woman clutching her child or a child's head and squeeze the trigger." Which is an awful thing. Whats even worse is that it happens every day somewhere, but excuses are made for countries that we are friendly with.

Even your post downplays the shooting of the girl by the "accused" and "under investigation". If it was a Palistinian or Iraqi insurgent that did the deed I doubt you'd use such a skeptical terms.

 

[Tmy]

I agree completely. That's why I said national service.

Where was my parade dammit!!

 

[c0rbin]

I was comparing terrible behavior around the globe. Someone mentioned "a father that people can be so personal as to put a handgun to a woman clutching her child or a child's head and squeeze the trigger." Which is an awful thing. Whats even worse is that it happens every day somewhere, but excuses are made for countries that we are friendly with.

Even your post downplays the shooting of the girl by the "accused" and "under investigation". If it was a Palistinian or Iraqi insurgent that did the deed I doubt you'd use such a skeptical terms.

What excuses? This person, according to the posts made here, will face up to his alleged crime. There will be due process for that bloodshed.

Just like torturers at Abu G. will do time and face dishonor.

Where is the person who put a bullet in the head of a little boy holding his ball?

What UN resolution is going to investigate that murder? Or the rapes and slaughter in Darfur?

You shrug your shoulders and say ◊◊◊◊ happens?

 

[Tmy]

What excuses? This person, according to the posts made here, will face up to his alleged crime. There will be due process for that bloodshed.

Yeah. And the only reason that'll happen is because the Isreali soliders complained. Thats actually the core of the story. Without that, its just another run of the mill dead Palistinian youth story.

And yeah ◊◊◊◊ does happen.


I would wager that over the last few years there has been more death, tourture, killing in the Isreal/Palistine than in Saddam run Iraq. We rush into Iraq under the morality flag, but we pretty much ignore the mideast conflict. Doesnt that seem sort of hypocritical.

(for the record I dont believe that "iraqi freedom" was very high on the reason to invade list. But it makes for good PR)

 

[c0rbin]

All those waging fingers from the sideline might mean something if the hands behind them did more than moralize.

The US has put itself in a hard place--a place no other country seems willing to go.

Now when you can show me evidence of Israel lining up and executing women and childeren, I will buy your diversion, until then, you are equivocating.

Is it a good thing or a bad thing that genocide at the hands of Saddam's regime has been put to a halt?

 

[Tmy]

Now when you can show me evidence of Israel lining up and executing women and childeren, I will buy your diversion, until then, you are equivocating.

Just read the daily paper. Almost every day theres a bus bombing then a rocket attack, then a fire fight.

Is there any real difference just cause the killings arent as dramatic as execution style, or the graves are one at time vs mass? You still end up with a bunch of dead people.

And Im not arguing that we should send troops into the mid/east conflict. I also didnt want them in Iraq. I know thats kinda cold, but Im looking out for our guys first.

 

[BPSCG]

Just read the daily paper. Almost every day theres a bus bombing then a rocket attack, then a fire fight.

Interesting the order you put those events in. It generally starts with a bus bombing or some other attack against Israeli civilians. Then when Israel retaliates against known terrorist strongholds in Palestinian neighborhood, your reaction is "Won't somebody think of the (Palestinian) children?"

Why is it that periods of relative quiet between Israel and the Palestinians always seem to be broken by a bombing, not by Israeli tropps marching into a neighborhood and shooting the place up?

 

[Kodiak]

Where was my parade dammit!!

Well, there's service, and then there's "service"...

 

[Cleon]

Why is it that periods of relative quiet between Israel and the Palestinians always seem to be broken by a bombing, not by Israeli tropps marching into a neighborhood and shooting the place up?

Actually, "periods of relative quiet" seem to be "periods where only Palestinians get killed, and nobody makes a big deal about it."

It's only front-page news when a bus blows up; when a 13-year-old girl is murdered by IDF soldiers on her way to school, it gets blurb in the back of the paper. And even then, only because two of the soldiers complained.

The IDF's been going apes--t in Gaza over the past week or so, but it's a "period of relative quiet" because there hasn't been a suicide bombing.

 

[Kodiak]

All those waging fingers from the sideline might mean something if the hands behind them did more than moralize.

A perfectly sublime sentiment...

 

[Tmy]

Interesting the order you put those events in. It generally starts with a bus bombing or some other attack against Israeli civilians. Then when Israel retaliates against known terrorist strongholds in Palestinian neighborhood, your reaction is "Won't somebody think of the (Palestinian) children?"

Why is it that periods of relative quiet between Israel and the Palestinians always seem to be broken by a bombing, not by Israeli tropps marching into a neighborhood and shooting the place up?

Well the Palistinians hands are not clean in the matter. But the events arent always started by the Palis. Like that that story of the girls who were killed. Were talking about kids going to school. THey werent caught in the crossfire of a hamas assasination attempt.

I must admit that I do scutinize the Isrealies more because I expect better behavior from a government than from terror groups.

 

[c0rbin]

TMY, you have failed to bring an example from the Isreali handling of the Palestinians that is similar to lining up women and children and dispatching them one at a time execution style. Heck, I'd settle for an exmaple of women and children being lined up and sytematically machine-gunned.

People in an urban setting falling victim to fire-fights is akin to combat--wholly different than this.

Further, you have not answered my simple question: Is it a good thing or a bad thing that genocide at the hands of Saddam's regime has been put to a halt?

 

[Tmy]

TMY, you have failed to bring an example from the Isreali handling of the Palestinians that is similar to lining up women and children and dispatching them one at a time execution style. Heck, I'd settle for an exmaple of women and children being lined up and sytematically machine-gunned.

People in an urban setting falling victim to fire-fights is akin to combat--wholly different than this.

Further, you have not answered my simple question: Is it a good thing or a bad thing that genocide at the hands of Saddam's regime has been put to a halt?

The girl was walking to school when she was sniped! You dont find that to be outragous??? Sending rockets into heavly populated areas is a little more than falling victim to stray bullets in a fire fight. Its extremely reckless and the likleyhood of hitting inncoent people is almost certain. It is akin to lining up people and shooting 10 people just to hit the 1 bad guy.


Is it good that Saddams genocide is being stopped. Yes.

Let me ask you, is it good that dozens of Iraqis and american soilders are being killed on a daily basis?

 

[Kodiak]

Let me ask you, is it good that dozens of Iraqis and american soilders are being killed on a daily basis?

No it is not good.

It is inescapable.

 

[c0rbin]

Is it good that Saddams genocide is being stopped. Yes.

Well done.

Let me ask you, is it good that dozens of Iraqis and american soilders are being killed on a daily basis?

In light of the acheivement you finally responded to above? Yes. Don't get me wrong, violence and muder in the name of any cause is horror show.

But if only the Saddams and Osamas of the world were courageous enough to come to the table with their greivences--instead of hiding behind the obsolete romance of war--perhaps all the killing wouldn't be necessary.

The girl was walking to school when she was sniped! You dont find that to be outragous???

Of course it is outrageous.

Sending rockets into heavly populated areas is a little more than falling victim to stray bullets in a fire fight.

It is unfortunate that a Palestinian freedom fighter chooses armed conflict to resolve his/her greivences and then chooses his own heavily populated areas to hide in.

The choice to fight a guerilla style war in your own barrio is about as dumb as curing your headlice with a flamethrower.

These people have the same choices Ghandi had. They choose to hide behind their women and children.

Its extremely reckless and the likleyhood of hitting inncoent people is almost certain.

Makes me wonder why they would choose the fight they did.