More On Iraqi Mass Graves

[Tmy]

Howz about we Palistinian-ize the Kurds and blame the hapless bystanders!

Ya know, if the Kurds werent such rebellious rabble rousing traitorous troublemakers...........then Saddam wouldnt have to gas them!!!!!

 

[c0rbin]

Again, if you can find a case even remotely similar to women and children being lined up and sytematically executed, I would love to read it and re-evaluate my position.

 

[ZeeGerman]

"Scuse me but I find the "stopping the holocaust" justification to be nothing more than insincere bullflop. No one disputes that Hitler was killing jews and gypsies by the trainload back in the day. But am I to buy that late 1941 is the time that we actually care about it?? Years later??"


I'm not drawing a direct comparison, but isn't it possible to do the right thing, even if it is not undertaken immediately?


"insincere bullflop"? I don't think so.

"Late in coming"? Perhaps...

As so often when Germany, Nazis and or the holocaust are dragged into a discussion, I have to come up with some nitpicking:

The systematic murder of jews, gypsies and others "by the trainload" didn't start before the Wannseekonferenz in 1942. Also see here

Beginning in 1942, the camp became the site of the greatest mass murder in the history of humanity, which was committed against the European Jews as part of Hitler's plan for the complete destruction of that people.

Just wanted to clarify. Carry on.

Zee

 

[Tmy]

Again, if you can find a case even remotely similar to women and children being lined up and sytematically executed, I would love to read it and re-evaluate my position.

Whats with the obbession with the mode of killing. Dead is dead.

If you want to nit-pick, wheres the proof that saddam had anything to do with this mass grave?

 

[c0rbin]

Hmmm...what is the difference between civilians caught in the cross fire and the systematic murder of women and children?

 

[Nikk]

As so often when Germany, Nazis and or the holocaust are dragged into a discussion, I have to come up with some nitpicking:

The systematic murder of jews, gypsies and others "by the trainload" didn't start before the Wannseekonferenz in 1942. Also see here


Just wanted to clarify. Carry on.

Zee

You know Zee, considering what a civilised society modern Germany is, I think you guys always show heroic restraint in not pointing out that Nazism lasted for a mere 12 years whereas the U.S. was busy committing acts of genocide for a century or more and not content with that ran an apartheid state in the south until the 60's.

You should try it some time.

Oh and feel free to kick us Brits in the nuts if we overdo the moral superiority thing too.

 

[Tmy]

You know Zee, considering what a civilised society modern Germany is, I think you guys always show heroic restraint in not pointing out that Nazism lasted for a mere 12 years whereas the U.S. was busy committing acts of genocide for a century or more and not content with that ran an apartheid state in the south until the 60's.

You should try it some time.

Oh and feel free to kick us Brits in the nuts if we overdo the moral superiority thing too.

Yeah but those Germans were just so damn efficient at genocide. People act as if "the nazis" were alien body snatchers that possessed the german people and then left their bodies after 12 years. Nazism may have died, but the nazis still live.

Was I the only one upset when the wall came down?

 

[zenith-nadir]

Whats with the obbession with the mode of killing. Dead is dead. If you want to nit-pick, wheres the proof that saddam had anything to do with this mass grave?

Saddam's Baath party killed so many people that we may never know how many people, or who, have been killed since he took power in 79.

But there was such a thing called The Anfal Campaign Against the Kurds .

Was I the only one upset when the wall came down?

No way man...that was the best part of the Floyd concert!

 

[ZeeGerman]

People act as if "the nazis" were alien body snatchers that possessed the german people and then left their bodies after 12 years.

While I agree that this attitude was very common in Germany after WWII, your statement refers to the present and is a little too general for me. Could you clarify which people you are talking about?

And what has the coming down of the wall to do with it?

Zee

 

[Tmy]

"When Ba'athist administrators thwarted Kurdish nationalist ambitions in Iraq, war broke out in the 1960s. In 1970 the Kurds rejected limited teritorial self-rule within Iraq, demanding larger areas including the oil-rich Kirkuk region. Iran fought the Kurds from 1979 on."


Hmmm this story sounds alot like the Palistine story. Why is its that the Kurds get sympathy and the Palis get what they deserve.

 

[Kodiak]

As so often when Germany, Nazis and or the holocaust are dragged into a discussion, I have to come up with some nitpicking:

The systematic murder of jews, gypsies and others "by the trainload" didn't start before the Wannseekonferenz in 1942. Also see here


Just wanted to clarify. Carry on.

Zee

I've been rightly nit-picked...

I knew I shouldn't have recreated Tmy's phrasing when I posted that.

Though experts disagree, I consider Kristallnacht in Nov. '38 the beginning of the holocaust, though others will say Sept. '39 when Germany invaded Poland, and still others count the beginning of Operation Barbarossa in June '41.

You are correct though that the 'final solution' in it most efficient and barbaric form started after the Wannsee Conference of Jan. '42...