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Moon Hoax conspiracy

That's why I always used a filler light.

[slight derail]One thing that has always bugged me about the arguments of "Moon Hoaxers" and those who believe that the pyramids were built by aliens, is the underestimation of human capability. I find it insulting that they believe we are not capable of such achievements, which if broken down into their component parts are not that impossible. Give human beings (and if possible the specific people involved) the credit they are due.[/slight derail]

It's argument from personal incredulity.

"I don't understand how it was done therefor it's impossible."

I wonder how many people around the world just flat out refused to accept the reports of the Montgolfier Brothers balloon flight?
 
Is that a debunking?

The Space Shuttle, so far, has killed fourteen people, merely trying to attain an orbit about two hundred fifty miles above the Earth. How is it then, that a third of a century ago, with less computing power in the entire rocket than in a present day twenty dollar Wal-Mart watch, NASA claims to have gone 100,000% farther, six different times between 1969 and 1972, landing on another celestial body and then returning, without ever killing anyone? How could they have powered air conditioning in two hundred fifty degree heat for three days with batteries? Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first?

First off, you appear to be confusing spaceship design with computer design.

Regarding your point about the memory of the onboard computers, the astronauts were in continuous contact with Mission Control so that they did the calculations and passed the results on to the astronauts.

The reason why it's been so long before the return visit? Probably the expense. I suspect that the only reason that a return is being planned now is economic.
 
500 years ago without radar or ways of telling Longtitude, boats the size of these sailed around the world...............Must have been faked!!!!

boats%20large.jpg
 
First off, you appear to be confusing spaceship design with computer design.

Regarding your point about the memory of the onboard computers, the astronauts were in continuous contact with Mission Control so that they did the calculations and passed the results on to the astronauts.

The reason why it's been so long before the return visit? Probably the expense. I suspect that the only reason that a return is being planned now is economic.
If you read Homer Hickman's second book, it's because of the Helium-3.
AAAHH
 
Is that a debunking?

No

The Space Shuttle, so far, has killed fourteen people, merely trying to attain an orbit about two hundred fifty miles above the Earth. How is it then, that a third of a century ago, with less computing power in the entire rocket than in a present day twenty dollar Wal-Mart watch, NASA claims to have gone 100,000% farther, six different times between 1969 and 1972, landing on another celestial body and then returning, without ever killing anyone?

I already covered this, comparing the Shuttle and Apollo are like comparing Apples with screwdrivers. Apart from going into space, they are as totally different as is possible, and the Shuttle managed to complete 50 missions without any deaths, Apollo only had 15 the flew, even if you include Spacelab and the Soyuz missions, 16 in total, one of which had fatalies on the ground, and one nearly cost the lives of the crew, and shortened the programme.

How could they have powered air conditioning in two hundred fifty degree heat for three days with batteries?

Answered already for the suits, but perhaps we need to do the LM too. First, the temperature wasn't 250°F (it gets to a maximum of about 243°F or 117°C) while the crew was there, so that temperature is irrelevent to the missions.

Secondly there is no air, so the temperatures that were reached where the ground temperatures, not an air temperature. Even on earth, the ground temperature can be a lot hotter than the air temperature. Next time you have a hot sunny day, check the temperature of a rock that has been sitting in the sun, you'll find that it can quite a bit hotter then the surrounding air but doesn't pose a threat to your standing there.

Thirdly. The LM was designed with this in mind. The legs kept the LM body high off the surface, and it was covered in reflective layers to keep as much of the heat from being radiated to it as was possible (in most areas, some parts actually were designed to absorb the heat so they could keep the parts there are a higher temperature) The LM was landed with the crew windows pointing down sun to avoid the sun being directly in through the windows and they had muliple layering as well.

Fourthly, whenever the crew weren't inside the LM, there was no atmosphere in the LM, they would decompress the craft to leave, and not recompress it until they were ready to remove their suits.

and Finally, there were several heat exchangers that worked the same way as the PLSS subliminator to extract waste heat from the LM, something that caused a problem on Apollo 13 after they shut off the electronics and blocked out the sun. Because these systems were designed to counter the heat produced by these things, without that heat being produced, the interior of the LM cooled down too much and resulted in the craft being very cold.

Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first?

Politics. Politics and money. There has never been a political reason to return. Apollo got canned after Apollo 13 because the politicains decided it was a) a waste of taxpayer money which they could be spending on their own waste of money projects, b) it was a "democrat" program and the Government was Republican and the then President had his own space programme in mind, the Space Shuttle, c) after the near fatality of Apollo 13, it was considered too dangerous and no politician wanted dead astronauts in space on their re-election campaign.

Since then only two Presidents have been willing to fund a return. Reagan in the 80's and now Bush Jr. Reagan floated the idea and a lot of options were considered, including if it was possible to refit the Shuttles for such a mission (it is, but it's not practiacable, you'd have to almost redesign the entire thing, so might as well just build a purpose built ship for the job.) In the end it was scrapped because it would cost too much. Now with the shuttles retiring, NASA needs a new ship anyway, so designing and building one that can get to the moon as well as servicing the ISS is a practical idea. It doesn't actually cost a great deal more to get to the moon once you are in Earth Orbit. Because of the need for the new ships, and the opportunity to return, it will hopefully happen (the next administration could still pull the plug on the moon missions even though they'll have a ship capable of doing it) but there is little point in rushing this time as it's not a race to get there any more.

Just on a time scale. Apollo was started in 1958 and landed in 1969, 11 years. Constellation was floated in 2004 and is scheduled to land in 2020 (though originally planned for 2016-2018), 16 years. It doesn't have the Apollo budgets, it is being planned as an ongoing mission to build a base and have long term stays on the moons (more then the entire ten days of Apollo flight.) The craft are to be re-useable and it includes the programmes for retraining the astronauts to fly a new craft (Mercury, Gemini and Apollo were all similar.) Considering those factors with the slower pace, 5 years isn't that much.
 
I cannot see how it is fine for kookbreaker to have the username he has

Gee, I missed this first time around.

Why is it that some folks whine about my username? Are they basicly declaring themselves to be kooks?

This has been a diversion. in the event of a real post you would have instructed on what thread to click on. This was only a diversion.
 
Gee, I missed this first time around.

Why is it that some folks whine about my username? Are they basicly declaring themselves to be kooks?

This has been a diversion. in the event of a real post you would have instructed on what thread to click on. This was only a diversion.
Maybe it's the title below the username, for those unfamiliar with vintage aircraft it might seem that you are trying to get around the spelling filter, or they may be mis-pronouncing "kook."
 
Gee, I missed this first time around.

Why is it that some folks whine about my username? Are they basicly declaring themselves to be kooks?

This has been a diversion. in the event of a real post you would have instructed on what thread to click on. This was only a diversion.
Ironic only those who are
avatar164_3.gif
s would complain?


Bad airplanes are such
avatar164_3.gif
s when they shoot down my good spad.
1244746206b5a8e842.jpg
 
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This WWI pissing contest has brought me to an epiphany.

From my experience, Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3 requires approximately 1 billion bytes of main system memory, a processor running at 3 billion cycles per second and a video card running at 500 million cycles per second with at least 256 million bytes of video memory.

Contrast this with the P-51, P-38 (my personal favorite), P-47, Spitfire, Hurricane, Mosquito (another favorite), Typhoon, B-25, B-17, B-24, Lancaster, Bf-109, Bf-110, FW-190, Me-262, Ju-87, Ju-88, He-111, Do-17 and many others not listed had absilutely NO computing power whatsoever.

Clearly the entire Air War over Europe was faked. Since they did not have the computing power to simulate it, they had to... uhhh... "simulate" it (don't ask me, I just write this stuff).

Ok, semi-seriously here... let's say we're in orbit over the moon in a LEM (that's Lunar Excursion Module to you CTers who obviously have no clue what you're talking about), let's see if we can figure out how much computing power is really needed to simulate the landing of the LEM.

First, we need to simulate the performance of the LEMs langing gear.

Wait... we don't need to. It turns out our LEM has a complete set of four landing struts and pads made from the same materials and the same schematics that NASA uses! And they're made to react to real world conditions exactly the same way "real" landing gear would!

We need to simulate the gravity and surface conditions of the moon.

Wait... we don't need to simulate it, let's use the big @#$%ing moon we're orbiting! The best part is, it's already paid for!

We need to simulate the the thrust of the LEMs rocket engine.

Ooorrrr... we could save on save on system resources and use the big flaming rocket under our asses? Call me crazy...

We need to simulate the weight of the LEM itself.

Good thing for us though that we have a spacecraft that weighs exactly as much as a real LEM! Clearly, this cannot be a coincidence. Only a deliberate conspiracy by a group of adequately paid aerospace engineers employed by a greedy defense contractor with the lowest bid could produce an LEM that functions exactly like a spacecraft when placed in lunar orbit.

Apologies to Micheal Collins as we only need to simulate the weight of two astronauts.

In fact, after adding everything up, in order to accurately simulate all the aspects of a lunar landing, our LEM's computer needs to be a 5,000 year old chinese abacus (Buzz gets punchy when he's bored).

Any astronauts, astrophysicists or adequately paid aerospace engineers can feel free to double check my calculations.
 
But you raise a good point; with todays computing power and more advanced knowledge, we'd be able to show if any of the Apollo calculations were faked / wrong.

But we haven't, because they aren't. I'm still waiting for an Apollo Hoax Believer to demonstrate - with clear mathematics and science - that the Apollo programme data was faked in some way.
 
Should I point out the the term LEM was changed to LM?

(ducks from oncoming onslaught..)

You beat me to it! Nasa switched to "LM" because many felt "Excursion" made it sound like they were going on a school trip.

It was still pronounced "LEM", however.
 
But you raise a good point; with todays computing power and more advanced knowledge, we'd be able to show if any of the Apollo calculations were faked / wrong.

But we haven't, because they aren't. I'm still waiting for an Apollo Hoax Believer to demonstrate - with clear mathematics and science - that the Apollo programme data was faked in some way.

Didn't Apollo 12' S-IVB stage re-enter Earth orbit for a while a year or two ago? Did they have an explanation for that? :confused:
 
You beat me to it! Nasa switched to "LM" because many felt "Excursion" made it sound like they were going on a school trip.

It was still pronounced "LEM", however.

I watched the luner landing on tv in 1969 (the same evening Marilu henner lost her virginity, another historic event)/trivia
And on tv they called the LEM the "lunar escape module". which was only the part of the module that launched back up off the moon. the LM was both parts. That was my understanding from the experts intervied on tv back when i was a 14 year old.
 
In fact, after adding everything up, in order to accurately simulate all the aspects of a lunar landing, our LEM's computer needs to be a 5,000 year old chinese abacus (Buzz gets punchy when he's bored).

The funny part - the calculations to get you to the Moon were invented in 1687 - and thats even before slide rules!!!!!!

Do Moon hoax people realise that the planet Neptune was discovered by working out its orbit with paper and pencil - When the astronomer turned his telescope to the location, the planet was within 1 degree (Diameter of the full moon) from the spot predicited.

So I suppose every now and then these people pre-computer got round to working useful stuff out. Possibly the most useful being binary code for computers.......... but what do I know
 
To be fair...

You actually can produce single converging shadows using two light sources. You will only get double shadows if the objects are illuminated by both light sources. If each light source only illuminates one of the objects, each will have only one shadow.

-Gumboot
 
I think everyone would have noticed if each astronaut had his own spotlight that shined only on him.
 
Should I point out the the term LEM was changed to LM?

(ducks from oncoming onslaught..)

Hush, you! You'll expose us! :D

All kidding aside, you are correct. I believe the LM was adopted by NASA after the contractor, Grumman, started calling it that. However, they change all the time. Fluency in acronymica is practically a job requirement for NASA engineers.

In this day and age, LM normally refers to Lockheed Martin, aka LockMart. I sometimes find myself using LEM just to avoid the confusion.
 
Hush, you! You'll expose us! :D

All kidding aside, you are correct. I believe the LM was adopted by NASA after the contractor, Grumman, started calling it that. However, they change all the time. Fluency in acronymica is practically a job requirement for NASA engineers.

In this day and age, LM normally refers to Lockheed Martin, aka LockMart. I sometimes find myself using LEM just to avoid the confusion.
I think many got used to it being called the LEM and never dropped the E. Or just refered to it by it's name (ie Spider or Eagle).
 
I think many got used to it being called the LEM and never dropped the E. Or just refered to it by it's name (ie Spider or Eagle).
as qarnos pointed out its still pronounced "lem" so i can certainly see how this could lead to confusion as well, lol
 

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