Montague Keen

And just to add, given any explanation from JE how can we have any confidence that he is not intentionally or unintentionally construing it to be self-serving? We simply can't.

Again, when we have trouble "hearing" something, its very much due to physical noise or constraints. Since the assumption would be that spirit communication is somehow non-physical or telepathic or some other such explanation, then there would be no such physical noise and impedments....So how is it that mentally, JE can "mishear" something?

We too easily fall into the trap of taking common everyday impediments to communication and allowing them to be applied to a completely unknown, unmeasurable, and as of yet undiscovered form of communication that is taking place in someones head.

How are we justified in thinking the two share any similiarties whatsoever.

Voidx, if for argument's sake we accept the fact that some people have this ability, we, as non-mediums, cannot begin to understand its nature. We either accept the explanations provided by those who claim they are communicating this way, or we don't. You're right. We cannot really know. JE has attempted to use analogies to help us to understand the process.

You ask, and it's a reasonable question, how can JE "mishear" something that he "hears" in his head? I'll concede that it's very difficult to imagine such a thing. JE claims that oftentimes it's almost like "hearing" a voice coming through a weak radio station with a lot of static. But again, since it is not physical hearing, yet on the other hand, it's not precisely a thought either, I can understand how it would be difficult for a medium to explain it to someone who has not experienced it for themselves. Exactly what rules apply in a non-physical world?

Can we say with any assurance that JE is for real? That he is actually communicating with the consciousness of people who have died? I guess we can't ever really know this for a fact. I do know that he is definitely doing something other than cold-reading. If I came across a mentalist who was able to replicate what I've seen JE do over the years, I wouldn't be in the believers' camp, but so far, I haven't found such a person.
 
Oh. Sorry, Claus. I forgot about your reading comprehension problem. Here, I'll repost my original statement, and perhaps you can get some fellow skeptic to help you out with its meaning.

(neofight)
"Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet.":rolleyes: (FYI, the rolleyes smiley denotes sarcasm.)

How come I know your real name, then? I know that you are a news junkie. You like Jay Severin, and Sean Hannity. On your wall, you have a framed "Certificate of Appreciation" from the Marine Corps League, with the scarlet and gold Marine Corps seal right on it. You are married. Neither you or your husband relies on Social Security. I know the state you live in. I know the state you grew up in. The age of your daughter, information about the number of brothers you have, even what baseball team they support - together with your husband, although you are not really a big baseball fan. You have grandkids, and I can tell you the number and ages. You love drinking icy water. You don't like the Democratic Party. You are definitely not a liberal. You worry about your weight. You have seen the movie "Stolen Honor". When Bush won, you drank champagne with your husband. You have met Carlton Sherwood.

Want me to go on? It's all out there, neofight. It took me less than 10 minutes to track all this down on TVTalkshows. There's more. A lot more.

You're a regular blabberhead, when it comes to your personal information.


No, you don't deny it?

I don't understand why you would think that simply receiving a reading, stellar or otherwise, would make one "admired" by JE fans? We might admire and/or appreciate JE's gift of mediumship, but why should a sitter be admired? I don't get it.

Sure, you do. On TVTalkshows, you were hoping year after year to get your own reading, so you yourself could bask in the undivided attention you gave those who already got theirs.
 
How come I know your real name, then? I know that you are a news junkie. You like Jay Severin, and Sean Hannity. On your wall, you have a framed "Certificate of Appreciation" from the Marine Corps League, with the scarlet and gold Marine Corps seal right on it. You are married. Neither you or your husband relies on Social Security. I know the state you live in. I know the state you grew up in. The age of your daughter, information about the number of brothers you have, even what baseball team they support - together with your husband, although you are not really a big baseball fan. You have grandkids, and I can tell you the number and ages. You love drinking icy water. You don't like the Democratic Party. You are definitely not a liberal. You worry about your weight. You have seen the movie "Stolen Honor". When Bush won, you drank champagne with your husband. You have met Carlton Sherwood.

Want me to go on? It's all out there, neofight. It took me less than 10 minutes to track all this down on TVTalkshows. There's more. A lot more.

You're a regular blabberhead, when it comes to your personal information.

(YAWN) Dear Claus, you truly are such a bore. And so predictable, too. ;P

I have nothing to hide about my personal life, Claus. I willingly gave up all of that information while chatting amongst on-line friends.....and others. But I have to ask you......what is your point, exactly? I could understand if JE had included all of that information in the reading we've been discussing, but he didn't. Which is rather strange, don't you think? I mean, if one of our amateur cold-readers were going to do a reading for me, "neo", they would very likely have to resort to scanning the internet to pick out some useful little tidbit of information with which to impress me. As you can see, John Edward, psychic medium, has no such need. You must know that JE laughs at you guys for even thinking he has to cheat like that. In a good-natured way of course. lol

Also, think about this for a moment, would you please? Had JE somehow cheated and managed to collect all of those great facts to use in my reading, if he were clever and resourseful enough to do all that, you can be damn sure that he wouldn't have allowed that spectacular spot-on reading to simply go unvalidated and unclaimed. It would have been one of the best, most accurate readings I'd ever see him give. He deserved to have bragging rights about that one.

I kind of wish that he had persisted with Bill and thought to ask him if he had come to the seminar with anybody else, or if he knew anyone in the audience that this information may have been meant for. But alas, the seminar was winding down, John was tired from his efforts, and so the opportunity to complete the reading in the usual way, (with me and/or my husband directly) went down the tubes.

Sure, you do. On TVTalkshows, you were hoping year after year to get your own reading, so you yourself could bask in the undivided attention you gave those who already got theirs.

You're a strange bird, Claus. Of course it's interesting and exciting to get a reading from JE. I was thrilled to get one, even indirectly. When others got readings, especially those who really needed to hear from a loved one, I was very happy for them because it brought them comfort. And that, my prune Danish, is the reason that JE and other medums do this work. To bring people comfort, and to let them know that death is not the end of the line, and that the consciousness of those who've left us through death lives on. Love is eternal. That's the real message after all. Nothing else. So it wasn't all about me, or all about Bill, or any of the dozens of others who got read that day. It's about passing along that message of love. Don't you feel the love, Claus? ;)
 
Interesting reaction of yours. Very telling, too.

Before, there was no way you could have been leaving personal information lying about. Oh, no. But when faced with reality, you pronounce me a "bore".

It isn't a question of you having nothing to hide about your personal life. It's a question of that information lying about, being used in psychic readings. If I had posed as a psychic, and told you that you had that Marine Corps League certificate hanging on your wall, you would have swooned over how fantastically accurate I was. Precisely the way you swooned over JE guessing that a Long Island resident had a Mets pennant hanging in the house, despite the fact that it was a much weaker hit.

Why don't you face the very real possibility of psychics picking up these bits of information about you? Why are you so willing to be scammed?

Don't even think about denying that psychics don't pick up on these things. How about that embarrassing incident on Dateline, where JE was caught red-handed?

Unfortunately, you are most likely quite right about JE seeking out this kind of information. He doesn't have to, because believers such as yourself are more than happy to gobble up any weak guess and make it their own.

You are the reason why these rapers of sorrow can continue, neofight.
 
Claus, are you dense or what? Why don't you ever try incorporating a bit of logic into your reasoning process? A smidgeon of honesty would be nice as well. It would be quite refreshing, instead of your always resorting to the sophistry you are so infamous for. (See my "Appeal to Honest Skeptics" thread)

First you build a straw man argument by saying that I claimed that no personal information about myself can be found on the internet, even though I never once claimed such a thing, nor would I. Hate to break it to you, Claus, but anyone reading this can also see that you are not being honest. Why do you expose yourself in this way? I even took the trouble to re-post my actual original statement, which I will do once again, just because I am such a kind and patient person. :)

(neofight)
"Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet." (FYI, the rolleyes smiley denotes sarcasm.)

And secondly, the fact remains that JE did NOT reference that Marine Corps League Certificate of Appreciation that's hanging here right in front of me, did he? So your point is moot to begin with. Had he done so, it would not have served as any sort of a validation for me, because it would have been suspect, and I would have had to eliminate it from the list. Nor did JE bring up any of the other stuff that I have posted about in the past. Know why, CF? Because he doesn't have to! He's not a cold-reader! I know that eats you up inside, but there you have it. He's for real, and you just can't handle it.

Now, go take an aspirin, and call me in the morning. :P
 
You promote a psychic vampire who feeds on the pain of grieving people.

And all you can do is smile.
 
It took me less than 10 minutes to track all this down on TVTalkshows.

No it didn't, it took you less than 10 minutes to go to your database of everything Neo has said that you've kept for years. And you call her pathetic....
 
No it didn't, it took you less than 10 minutes to go to your database of everything Neo has said that you've kept for years. And you call her pathetic....

TVTalkshows has an excellent search feature.

Do you know how I found out? I took the information from here: "jackie "john edward" neofight" and simply google'd it. The very first hit is TVTalkshows. I didn't even have to know about TVTalkshows, I could go with what I found here. From then, it's only a matter of doing a few searches.

Who is pathetic again?
 
Claus, or someone else, can you please provide a reference for this Dateline incident involving JE?

Or at least explain what happened, please, so I can more easily search for it myself.
 
Claus, or someone else, can you please provide a reference for this Dateline incident involving JE?

Or at least explain what happened, please, so I can more easily search for it myself.
You could start here - the "Dateline" incident is about halfway down the page.
 
Claus, or someone else, can you please provide a reference for this Dateline incident involving JE?

Or at least explain what happened, please, so I can more easily search for it myself.

The Dateline brouhaha was much to do about nothing, Humphreys. In fact, it's pretty lame that some skeptics still hold on to that incident as some sort of proof that JE is a fake. If after reading up about it you would care to discuss it at all, just let me know. Here is one thread from tvtalkshows where we touched on the Dateline show. I'll see if I can find the others.

http://www.tvtalkshows.com/board/showthread.php?t=27379&page=1&highlight=john+edward+dateline

http://www.tvtalkshows.com/board/showthread.php?t=27500&page=1&highlight=john+edwards+tony+cameraman

edited to add second link
 
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So I take it then that you don't wish to address the fact that you once again tried to win a debate by deliberately twisting my words? Evasion noted. Just like the good old days. :rolleyes:

I didn't claim that you said no information could be found about you online. But I provided personal information about you that far outshines anything that John Edward has ever "read" about anyone - with the possible exeception of the Dateline example, of course.

You can ignore this, of course. You are very good at ignoring facts that prove that your hero is a crook.

The Dateline brouhaha was much to do about nothing, Humphreys. In fact, it's pretty lame that some skeptics still hold on to that incident as some sort of proof that JE is a fake.

Do you dispute that John Edward knew about Tony's dead father before the taping of the actual show? Yes or no, please.
 
No it didn't, it took you less than 10 minutes to go to your database of everything Neo has said that you've kept for years. And you call her pathetic....

Hi, RC! Thanks for the support. :) Truth is, it doesn't much matter whether Claus got that information from the files he undoubtedly still keeps on "neo", or from doing a quick search over on tvtalkshows.

The fact that is significant is that JE does not have any need to use hot-reading tactics in order to give someone a meaningful reading imparting specific personal information. He just gives it as he gets it from spirit.

And furthermore, as was already discussed, there was no assigned seating at this seminar, so there is no way that John could know where to find any one particular person in the first place, even if he had cheated and searched for someone's information on the internet.
 
Hi, RC! Thanks for the support. :) Truth is, it doesn't much matter whether Claus got that information from the files he undoubtedly still keeps on "neo", or from doing a quick search over on tvtalkshows.

The fact that is significant is that JE does not have any need to use hot-reading tactics in order to give someone a meaningful reading imparting specific personal information. He just gives it as he gets it from spirit.

No, he doesn't. He just feeds gullible people like yourself inane guesses, and you and your kind are more than willing to make hits out of that.

And furthermore, as was already discussed, there was no assigned seating at this seminar, so there is no way that John could know where to find any one particular person in the first place, even if he had cheated and searched for someone's information on the internet.

I provided personal information about you that far outshines anything that John Edward has ever "read" about anyone - with the possible exeception of the Dateline example, of course.

This was ignored by you. As every other pertinent point made, by me or others.
 

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