Sure. But that is based upon your absolute believe that all psychic mediums are fakes. If that turns out not to be true, then your analogy is a bit flawed.
Montague Keen
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Sure. But that is based upon your absolute believe that all psychic mediums are fakes. If that turns out not to be true, then your analogy is a bit flawed.
Not just any one of the 2,000+ people at the seminar, Humphreys, but the one person out of the entire auditorium who had an actual connection to the person being read, and who in addition, could understand everything that JE just said in the second half of the reading. Want to give me the odds on that?
If you are a hardcore skeptic or cynic and don't believe any of this is possible in the first place, I'm not surprised that you would find this outside the realm of possibility as well. I get it! I have no interest in converting you. I'm just telling you about my experience.
Humphreys
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It's not good practice to calculate the odds after the fact.
This was not predicted. How many other people would have counted as having a "connection"? The guys sitting either side? A row back? Two rows back?
How close should the connection be? Does a friend count? Does it have to be a relative?
How often does this occur? Is this something John Edward admits happens a lot, and allows for?
What rational reason do we have to conclude readings like this should overlap?
Quite simply put, John Edward failed in his reading. It didn't match the person being read for, so the "net" was widened a little.
That's exactly the way cold reading works. If you're not catching any fish, try a bigger net.
Well then I'll rephrase the question. What do you think the odds WOULD have been that the only person in the place that Bill knew was also able to understand the complete second half of what JE said to Bill? Including the name of the spirit, (Tom) my maiden name, i.e., the last name of my parents to whom my father-in-law had been very close, (Alexander) the nickname we had for our daughter when my father-in-law was alive, (Dolly) and at the end, the very last thing JE blurted out, as though in exasperation, my own first name. (Jackie)
And I don't know how much you know about how psychics say the "process" works, but what was really interesting, when Bill didn't validate the name Dolly, JE began to question himself as to whether or not he had gotten the name right. He asked out loud, "Could it be DILLON?" In other words, he had "heard" the D sound and the double LL, so he considered that perhaps he could have heard it wrong in his head, and that it may not have been "Dolly" at all. But a second or two later he answered his own question when he very confidently said, "No, it's definitely 'Dolly', because now I'm "seeing" a carton of Dolly Madison ice cream." He had gotten a verification that he had it right. I understand that you don't buy the way the process works, but I just wanted to put that out there because I've always been fascinated by the symbols that pyschics are able to perceive, that they then have to interpret or convert into the message.
Maybe you should read a book on the subject? It's not that I cannot respond to all your questions. I can. But we spoke about odds earlier, and I think the odds are probably quite good that all I would get for my effort and time would be ridicule, so I'm not sure I'm interested in obliging you. Why not go back and read old threads on the subject, either here or over at tvtalkshows?
And I'm perfectly fine with the fact that you believe that, Humphreys. I would just say again that I've never witnessed a cold-reading that contained as many pieces of accurate information as this reading did, without any feedback whatsoever. In fact, not only was there no feedback to encourage JE, he even had Bill in front of him saying, "No. I don't know what that means. Hmmm. No idea. Sorry, John. It's not making any sense to me," etc. And still JE, or more accurately, my father-in-law, was able to communicate 4 names, (no initials, names) and another four pieces of information that we could personally relate to.
So, there you have it. You don't believe in mediumship. I do.
Jeff Corey
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It's twue, it's twue 
Humphreys
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Take a coin, and throw it as far as you can. Now, go find it.
What do you think the odds WOULD have been, for that coin to land in that
specific spot?
The fact remains, you are changing the rules of the game. JE was not reading for you. You knew Bill, so what? The reading could have matched someone else in the room entirely, with no connection to Bill, and you could have found a way to rationalize that as evidence of mediumship.
Neofight, could it be that JE had all this information about you from your credit card details, yet only knew where Bill was sitting, and did not recognize you, so he tagged your reading onto the end of his, hoping either you or Bill would recognize it as being for you and speak up?
Let's not forget that neofight was a fan(atic) for years before finally landing a reading. She has left enough information about herself on message boards to feed any psychic.
And, as we know, fan(atic)s like neofight will not only do ANYTHING to get a reading, but also to get a FANTASTIC reading. Those with FANTASTIC readings are stars in their own right. They are admired and envied by their fellow believers.
And, as we know, fan(atic)s like neofight will not only do ANYTHING to get a reading, but also to get a FANTASTIC reading. Those with FANTASTIC readings are stars in their own right. They are admired and envied by their fellow believers.
Humphreys, nobody knew where anyone was sitting. The seating was completely random. That's the point. It was mass confusion that morning, with thousands of people lined up and weaving their way from the ground floor up the escalator into the auditorium on the second floor.
And if you really believe that JE depends upon this sort of fraud in order to do a reading, then there's no sense in trying to convince you otherwise. The logistics alone of what you are suggesting are not only not feasible, they're downright impossible.
And then you could write a book about it, sell the TV rights, and have a pretty actress play you as a Medium.
Because they told you they do?
There are cranks who call the police all the time with psychic tips who get zero publicity. I'm sure in their minds they have a quiet relationship with the police.
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Aww, poor Claus. You feel left out of the discussion, right? Okay, I'll throw you a bone and respond to your inane comments.
Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet.
Oh yes! You are correct, Sir! I am a star! They love me, they really love me! Everyone wants to be neo!!!
Claus, you are such a nerd! lol
Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet.
Oh yes! You are correct, Sir! I am a star! They love me, they really love me! Everyone wants to be neo!!!
Claus, you are such a nerd! lol
And then you could write a book about it, sell the TV writes, and have a pretty actress play you as a Medium.
LOL Luke. You're such a cynic! Still, at least you are a friendly and very likeable cynic!
Because they told you they do?
No. I don't know any psychics, personally. But on televised police stories I've seen, detectives have verified that psychics have been helpful. And I've read of such cases in books like "Psychic Connections", etc.
But for the most part, if you were in law enforcement and you availed yourself of help that was offered by psychics, you probably wouldn't want word of that to get around either, for obvious reasons.
What, you expect me to argue with you about that? I've already acknowledged that there are plenty of disreputable people out there who are only looking to advance their favorite charity, themselves, or who want to feel self-important. I just don't share your belief that they are all like that.
Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet.
Do you deny that you have posted personal information about yourself on public forums over the years? Just yes or no, please.
Do you deny that those who claim stellar readings by John Edward are admired by his fans? Just yes or no, please.
So you in fact never spoke up during this reading correct? JE moved on without anyone outwardly claiming the second half of the reading. With 2000 people in the room, what are the odds that someone else had a strong validation of the second half who also did not speak up?
To me the seating arrangement is completely unnecessary. I've no idea whether or not JE goes fishing for information based on credit card info, although its entirely within the realm of possibility. But assuming he does, he wouldn't need to know where you were sitting at all. Take the information and fish it out to the whole crowd, or to a particular section, as he always does, and see who bites. If you're there at all, you likely will.
Since it's the reader that validates, he doesn't need to know specifically where your seated. You'll speak up.
As for the process of mediumship, again, we have only hearsay about what mediums receive, and it is not consistent from medium to medium. JE cannot "hear" or "mishear" something in his mind. I'm afraid that's just a physical impossibility. Hearing is a very physical process, and if JE in fact does "hear" anything, it would be measurable. When you "hear" someone saying something in a dream, you do not in fact "hear" anything. You imagine it, you attempt to "visualize" it, but its not in fact audible. So when JE claims to "hear" something in his head...what in fact is actually happening? No one seems to know.
I've always been surprised how uncritical people are of the internal, subjective "information" that mediums provide. Its complete hearsay what's going on in their minds, and that will always leave me skeptical because I don't even have 100% trust in my own recollection of my personal experiences, let alone can differentiate them from my own imaginings, or from some external source. How does JE tell? Is he thinking/daydreaming/imaging or is he receiving information through spirit communication? How does he know?
To me the seating arrangement is completely unnecessary. I've no idea whether or not JE goes fishing for information based on credit card info, although its entirely within the realm of possibility. But assuming he does, he wouldn't need to know where you were sitting at all. Take the information and fish it out to the whole crowd, or to a particular section, as he always does, and see who bites. If you're there at all, you likely will.
Since it's the reader that validates, he doesn't need to know specifically where your seated. You'll speak up.
As for the process of mediumship, again, we have only hearsay about what mediums receive, and it is not consistent from medium to medium. JE cannot "hear" or "mishear" something in his mind. I'm afraid that's just a physical impossibility. Hearing is a very physical process, and if JE in fact does "hear" anything, it would be measurable. When you "hear" someone saying something in a dream, you do not in fact "hear" anything. You imagine it, you attempt to "visualize" it, but its not in fact audible. So when JE claims to "hear" something in his head...what in fact is actually happening? No one seems to know.
I've always been surprised how uncritical people are of the internal, subjective "information" that mediums provide. Its complete hearsay what's going on in their minds, and that will always leave me skeptical because I don't even have 100% trust in my own recollection of my personal experiences, let alone can differentiate them from my own imaginings, or from some external source. How does JE tell? Is he thinking/daydreaming/imaging or is he receiving information through spirit communication? How does he know?
Humphreys
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Neofight, sorry if you've mentioned this before and I missed it, but did JE pick Bill out especially, or did he just start reeling off some information, and wait for someone to speak up as it being for him, initially?
And just to add, given any explanation from JE how can we have any confidence that he is not intentionally or unintentionally construing it to be self-serving? We simply can't.
Again, when we have trouble "hearing" something, its very much due to physical noise or constraints. Since the assumption would be that spirit communication is somehow non-physical or telepathic or some other such explanation, then there would be no such physical noise and impedments....So how is it that mentally, JE can "mishear" something?
We too easily fall into the trap of taking common everyday impediments to communication and allowing them to be applied to a completely unknown, unmeasurable, and as of yet undiscovered form of communication that is taking place in someones head.
How are we justified in thinking the two share any similiarties whatsoever.
Again, when we have trouble "hearing" something, its very much due to physical noise or constraints. Since the assumption would be that spirit communication is somehow non-physical or telepathic or some other such explanation, then there would be no such physical noise and impedments....So how is it that mentally, JE can "mishear" something?
We too easily fall into the trap of taking common everyday impediments to communication and allowing them to be applied to a completely unknown, unmeasurable, and as of yet undiscovered form of communication that is taking place in someones head.
How are we justified in thinking the two share any similiarties whatsoever.
Oh. Sorry, Claus. I forgot about your reading comprehension problem. Here, I'll repost my original statement, and perhaps you can get some fellow skeptic to help you out with its meaning.
(neofight)
"Yes, I've often posted on public forums about my daughter's baby nickname and my husband's dead father, and my maiden name, and all the rest of the personal information that JE brought up. That information is all over the internet."
(FYI, the rolleyes smiley denotes sarcasm.)No. I don't understand why you would think that simply receiving a reading, stellar or otherwise, would make one "admired" by JE fans? We might admire and/or appreciate JE's gift of mediumship, but why should a sitter be admired? I don't get it.
Correct. There in the audience, my husband and I had a running, whispered dialogue going on as one by one JE mentioned things that made sense to us, but we were a bit taken aback, and didn't yell for a mic or anything. I think that the fact that we were in front of such a large audience had at least a little to do with that. My best friend and her husband were sitting next to us, so of course, they were prodding us to speak up, since they realized too that what JE said fit us perfectly.
JE spoke the entire time with Bill, and you could tell he was somewhat frustrated because he felt sure about the messages he was getting. When Bill kept repeating that he didn't think that latter part of the reading was for him, JE just wrapped it up. (it was the last reading) He told Bill that if at some later date he remembered something else, to write into JE's newsletter with the validation.
IMO? Not too good. First of all, as I said, these were very specific details. The very first thing JE said that related to us was, "I have Tom coming through..." That meant that the communication was from someone deceased named Tom. So naturally, my husband having lost his dad named Tom a couple of years before that, that meant something to us. Now I'm sure there were plenty of people in the audience who at some point knew someone named Tom who had passed on, but they would also have had to understand all of the rest of it too, which imo, would have been highly unlikely.
Absolutely not. JE has never thrown something out like that to the entire audience that I'm aware of. He's always been able to narrow it down within a couple of rows or seats. He feels almost a physical pull, very often directly to the exact person he's supposed to address. The only exception to this is when one spirit will open the way for another, as happened when Bill's relative moved over for my father-in-law to come through. Had Bill and I not known eachother, and my father-in-law was coming through, it would have been a completely separate reading for JE, and he would have been pulled directly to my area or row, once he was done with Bill's reading.
Again, you're confusing mediums with cold-readers. The norm would be for JE to go to the right person or family directly.
Well, of course, since we are not mediums ourselves, the only thing we have to go on is what psychic mediums tell us about the process. I disagree with you, however, about it not being consistent from medium to medium. The process may vary slightly from one to another, but imo, there are more commonalities than differences between the way mediums receive impressions. It's only their own individual frame of reference that might differ.
If you would go back to check, voidx, I think the first time I used the word "heard" I put quotation marks around it. Because you are right. Mediums "hear" things telepathically, through clairaudience. They "hear" these sounds, whether they be names, or other words, the same way you or I would "hear" a thought in our heads. Only thing is, communication from the other side doesn't always come through as clearly as a thought might. Sometimes it does, however. I remember one time on "Crossing Over" that John "heard" something so loudly and clearly, he actually thought someone in the audience had shouted something out to him, only no one had.
The only way I can answer that is to say that he can tell only from having experienced it. He's been psychic practically all his life. Since it's such an integral part of him, he doesn't find it all that strange or unnatural.
No problem, Humphreys. Yes, as I mentioned before, JE was returning from one side of the stage where he had just finished up a reading, (I think it may have been a suicide) and he had said that he was done for the day and that we would go to Q & A. But before he got back to center stage, he suddenly stopped and looked out at the audience, and pointed in Bill's direction, (several rows behind us and to our left) and said, "I think I'm with the man with the white shirt and the glasses." That was Bill, and one of the crew handed Bill a mic, and the reading began.