neofight,
Perhaps your memory could deal with something recent:
Name one psychic medium with "some ability".
Prove that this psychic medium has "some ability".
Montague Keen
- Thread starter arcticpenguin
- Start date
Perhaps your memory could deal with something recent:
Name one psychic medium with "some ability".
Prove that this psychic medium has "some ability".
Hmmm. Yes, it can, Claus. My memory just clicked and I realized that CFLarsen is still the same bore he was back when I used to post here.
Thanks for those links, Ersby. They were interesting threads, especially the first one. At least, unlike some, you have the distinction of being a skeptic who was willing to actually contribute something positive to our mediumship debate. I'll give you that.
Well, I'd much rather spend the time and money on something worth the time and money, such as Ian Rowland's book on the subject.Pyrrho, I could not disagree with you more. I have no idea where you live, but you should reallly try to find a local psychic medium with some ability. It would knock your socks off, or at least give you something to ponder.
I've watched JE at his game, I've watched SB at her game, and I've watched RA at her game, and I've watched JVP at his game. Basically, IMHO, it's the equivalent of forcing a card. Trot out the guesses, latch onto one that "sticks", and play it out at long as possible. I'm not saying it doesn't require skill and chutzpah, because it does, but so do all close-up magic tricks.
If there's a psychic medium with any ability where I live, they can exercise their ability and find me so they can try to convince me. In fact, that would be a good test. Any psychic out there can give it a try: commune with my dead grandpa and have him tell you what he had in his hand when I saw him dead on the floor, and in which room in the house, and what was on the floor next to him. That's only 3 guesses. Should be a piece of cake for any psychic with ability.
Even better: go to this website, http://www.missingkids.com/ and find one missing child. Just one.
My point? People like JE, JVP, SB, and their ilk never do anything psychic and they never perform any psychic reading that really matters. It's all speculation on the past by means of talented guesswork. The closest SB comes to doing something useful is her spurious medical advice. Other than that, all she does is blabber nonsense. I suppose one could argue that it is a useful thing to comfort the living by pretending that the dead live and are "all right", but we then delve into the relative morality of lying, enabling denial, and the pretense of having special powers from God.
But I digress.
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You made the claim, you provide the evidence.Hmmm. Yes, it can, Claus. My memory just clicked and I realized that CFLarsen is still the same bore he was back when I used to post here.
Surely, you can't object to that? After all, you are the one urging skeptics to seek evidence.
Name one psychic medium with "some ability".
Prove that this psychic medium has "some ability".
NoZed Avenger
Penultimate Amazing
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IIRC, the same "you should try some psychics in your area" thing was said to me in an old thread. After I indicated that I had attended a half dozen to observe them while studying cold-reading, the goalposts got up and started running. It had to be readings for me, it had to be a bigger number of readings, it had to be a reading with a more talented psychic than I had seen, etc., etc., etc.
Yes, you sure do.
As far as buying Ian Rowland's book, I wouldn't waste my money. Skeptics talk about the minimal editing that was done on JE's show, "Crossing Over", when very little actual editing was even done. In fact, very often, the shorter readings were aired in their entirety.
On the other hand, I'd need to check the thread for specifics, but when Ian Rowland performed that pathetic "mediumship" act a couple of years ago for that Halloween special, they omitted, condensed, chopped and spliced like nobody's business and were only able to come up with a precious few seconds of actual footage that was good enough to air. It was truly a sorry "expose".
When I wrote to Rowland asking how I might obtain the complete and unedited tape, he informed me that it was not available. Big surprise there!
What's the matter, NoZed Avenger? Can't quite get the nerve up to find a registered medium and make an appointment?
Or just not curious in the least?NoZed Avenger
Penultimate Amazing
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What's the matter, NoZed Avenger? Can't quite get the nerve up to find a registered medium and make an appointment?
I haven't gotten into any real arguments on this, and have been content to sit on the sidelines when the usual suspects tear into each other. Consequently, apart from a few short messages where I tentatively tested the waters to see how open-minded the tvtalkshows people were, I simply adopted a live-and-let-live philosophy.
This self-congratulatory, self-satisfied message of pure smugness from you is unwarranted, unfriendly, and ultimately untrue. This is nothing more than a verbal session of patting yourself on the back for being truly open or progressive, unlike whomever you've decided to insult - with no provocation, I might add.
You complain about Claus' manners and then post that bit of derisive commentary? Name-calling and insults against me are fine; nice way to show how much of a better person you are than me.
Don't "have the nerve"? Even if it was somehow my responsibility to go spend my own money and time on this, I have been to a number of readings when I was researching the subject. I also picked up around a dozen books on the subject and spoke to people who believed it and didn't.
And yet you won't even buy an Ian Rowland book oin the subject? I guess using your own reasoning, you just don't "have the nerve" to look at the other side, eh?
I am *so* sorry that my investigation fell short of what is "required" before being allowed to have an opinion on this subject.
I tell you what, neo. We'll leave to one side the amount of money I charge per hour for my time. Why don't you go ahead and find a "registered" psychic that meets your criteria in central Texas. Make it one that will allow me to record the entire session and make a transcript. You name him or her and pay for my session. I'll donate my time, even up to driving an hour or so, if necessary.
If the medium can get me specific information - without prompting and without having my name before-hand, I'll pay you back, with interest.
Do you have the nerve to use your own money, or are you more serious and courageous when we're talking about only using mine?
Ah, well, my autographed copy holds a place of relative honor on my bookshelf. Quite informative, and much of what Rowland says tallies with my own ideas about how it's done.Yes, you sure do.
As far as buying Ian Rowland's book, I wouldn't waste my money.
Eh, TV transcripts are all well and good, but focusing on the "hits and misses" misses the big picture.
Whatever...even if we had complete unedited footage it would prove very little. We might gain some insight as to method and technique but that's about all. The big questions would remain unanswered and I've always held the opinion that TV shows are poor venues for proper testing or proper demonstration of alleged psychic powers.
Anyway, all the platitudes effused by these so-called mediums are quite lovely in their own way--and it would all be beautiful if that stuff were true--but they continue to fail where it really matters.
If they have these special powers, why not prevent crime?
If they have these special powers, why not save human lives?
They don't, because they can't. They can't, because they have no special powers.
Tell us, though: how does one identify a psychic who has genuine ability? What are the criteria? Surely it must be simple.
Flange Desire
Muse
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Regardless of that, how about some supporting evidience?Hmmm. Yes, it can, Claus. My memory just clicked and I realized that CFLarsen is still the same bore he was back when I used to post here.
Name one psychic medium with "some ability".
Prove that this psychic medium has "some ability".
A live-and-let-live philosophy is a good thing, and those who know me would assure you that I share it. Because I believe what I do, doesn't mean that I feel like I'm better than someone who believes otherwise. In fact, if anything, it's more the believers who usually were made to feel they were on the receiving end of all the smugness and condescension from the skeptics, not vice versa. lol But, whatever.
Well, I didn't mean it to be any of those things, NoZed Avenger, but perception is everything I guess. As far as name-calling, however, I can see how my suggesting that you might not have the nerve to get a private reading could qualify as calling you a coward, so I apologize for that. I could definitely have phrased it better. Sorry.
Bottom line, however, it was just a straight question, which up until then, you hadn't answered. What I was asking you is whether there was some specific reason you never had a reading, or was it simply that you weren't all that curious about mediumship? Am I to understand then, from what you just wrote, that it was more a matter of the cost of a reading than anything else that kept you from experiencing a reading personally? Because, if so, then you wouldn't be the first to say that.
Well, of course it's not your "responsibility" NoZed Avenger. I'm just always surprised, as I've said before, that so few of you have ever actually gone and done this, despite what would appear on your part to be a more than casual interest in the subject.
But I have looked at the other side, NA, and at the time, I even exchanged several e-mails with Mr. Rowland discussing the subject. I understand well enough what is involved in the art of cold-reading. I've read (not bought) Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" and various articles written by mentalists, etc., that addressed the methods used in cold-reading. Plus, I studied JE on "Crossing Over" for several years, and attended several live seminars where readings were done. I also did most of the tedious transcribing of JE readings found on tvtalkshows, which we then debated, ad nauseam.
Now you're being melodramatic.
Of course you can have an opinion on this subject. And I'll stop myself from using my favorite "opinions are like ________" line here, just to keep it "friendly". Have you no pride, NoZed Avenger? Would you really want someone else to pay for your reading? Actually, I don't live anywhere near you. I'm more in Jeff Corey's neck of the woods. Well, PA actually, but I'm originally from Long Island. If you were down this way, I could think of two mediums, Robert Hansen, and Glenn Love, who I think might be able to impress you enough to make you go "hmmmm". But no. I would not offer to pay for your reading, mainly because if my husband ever found out about it, I could never hope to make him understand why I would ever think to do such a thing. lol I don't think he'd appreciate it.
I can't tell you how tempting and intriguing a proposition that is though. Seriously. I think that would be awesome if you got a reading that gave you pause and opened your mind up to the possibility that mediumship might be real after all. Still, I'm afraid I have to pass. And come on. If you aren't
motivated enough on your own to investigate this possibility, why should I care? (even if I do a little) BTW, how much interest would you pay me?
Just kidding, NA.Walter Wayne
Wayne's Words
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But he was interested enough to investigate....
... And come on. If you aren't motivated enough on your own to investigate this possibility, why should I care? (even if I do a little) BTW, how much interest would you pay me?
If someone were to propose a scheme that involved you giving money to some person, had investigated as much as you could without handing over said money, and believed at the end of the investigation that the scheme was con, would you hand over the money?
Yes, you sure do.
As far as buying Ian Rowland's book, I wouldn't waste my money. Skeptics talk about the minimal editing that was done on JE's show, "Crossing Over", when very little actual editing was even done. In fact, very often, the shorter readings were aired in their entirety.
On the other hand, I'd need to check the thread for specifics, but when Ian Rowland performed that pathetic "mediumship" act a couple of years ago for that Halloween special, they omitted, condensed, chopped and spliced like nobody's business and were only able to come up with a precious few seconds of actual footage that was good enough to air. It was truly a sorry "expose".
When I wrote to Rowland asking how I might obtain the complete and unedited tape, he informed me that it was not available. Big surprise there!
You are flat-out lying.
You know very well that the Crossing Over shows are heavily edited. You have argued yourself that a reading can take 30 minutes, yet we only see about 11 minutes worth.
You've been running away from this question for 2.5 years now. It still is here:
Where do the remaining 19 minutes go?
And are JE's unedited tapes available?
I understand what you are saying, Walter. I just think that I would need to, at least once, take that ultimate step and myself get a reading from a medium who came recommended to me. And yes, NA did investigate. But I don't know if those he investigated were real mediums or not. And bottom line, he said he never got a reading at these events. I just think I would need to do that before coming to any conclusions.
You know, it's not impossible to find sincere people who do mediumship readings for very little money. I'm not talking about a storefront fake with a crystal ball in the window. I'm talking about people who have this gift, and who do readings for friends and family. You know, not every medium welcomes all the attention, both positive and negative, that a JE or JVP gets. They just feel that if asked, they need to do what they can to help people.
No they're not, Ersby. But anyone is capable of buying a ticket to s JE seminar and personally observing two or three straight hours of actual readings. That opportunity is just not there with someone like Ian Rowland.