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Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

Belz... said:
No the point is that you have no idea. You just assume that you're right.

You also assume that white = privileged.
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Lumpenproletariat white supremacists struggling for existence in a trailer park get to feel superior by virtue of the colour of their skins.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Lumpenproletariat white supremacists struggling for existence in a trailer park get to feel superior by virtue of the colour of their skins.
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I'm sure they do, but this doesn't answer my question.

In fact, your continued insistence that it must be the case that all who disagree with you are white and all are privileged seems to belie your denial from two days ago about it stemming from white guilt.

How about we leave all of this out and just focus on the fact that what the teacher did was just wrong? It doesn't need to be racist or genocidal or colonialistic in order to be unacceptable.
 
Sideroxylon said:
If you are going to hand wave or trivialise issues like being likened to an ape with all it’s racist history, I will call it white privilege.
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If there is ever going to be racial peace in the US, the racist history of these kinds of things need to be left behind. If it would be OK to liken a white child to an ape, someday it is going to have to be OK to liken a black child to one.
 
JoeMorgue said:
It's a public school teacher. We don't have to do the whole "Check your privilege" routine on them to go "You did something wrong."

We are not limited to "The bog-standard Progressive response to racial incidents" and "Pretend nothing wrong happened."
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We can use terminology that triggers reactionaries who think themselves oh so clever for working out that gods are not real and mediums are bunk but unwilling/incapable of applying a sceptical approach to their social worldviews.
 
shuttlt said:
If there is ever going to be racial peace in the US, the racist history of these kinds of things need to be left behind. If it would be OK to liken a white child to an ape, someday it is going to have to be OK to liken a black child to one.
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They must be dealt with and not just swept under the rug.
 
Belz... said:
I'm sure they do, but this doesn't answer my question.

In fact, your continued insistence that it must be the case that all who disagree with you are white and all are privileged seems to belie your denial from two days ago about it stemming from white guilt.

How about we leave all of this out and just focus on the fact that what the teacher did was just wrong? It doesn't need to be racist or genocidal or colonialistic in order to be unacceptable.
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Yeah, recognising the context of the conversation might help you avoid beating up on strawmen.
 
Sideroxylon said:
They must be dealt with and not just swept under the rug.
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These things are never dealt with. Even if you have some definition of "dealt with" that is objective enough for us to agree on, other people will have a different definition.
 
shuttlt said:
These things are never dealt with. Even if you have some definition of "dealt with" that is objective enough for us to agree on, other people will have a different definition.
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A sad truth but much of life is sisyphean. Things look pretty grim when we are led by tiny minded populist politicians instead of visionaries.

Is there not a compounding of injustice to sweep these issues aside instead of confronting them?
 
Sideroxylon said:
You’re not even my real mom.
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That hurts, Sid.

No, but seriously: I agree with you on the general argument of this thread. I just don't know why you reflexively call those who disagree on the topic, who may or may not have a rational argument, privileged, or even white. Hell, some might come from countries where this dynamic is entirely different.
 
Belz... said:
That hurts, Sid.

No, but seriously: I agree with you on the general argument of this thread. I just don't know why you reflexively call those who disagree on the topic, who may or may not have a rational argument, privileged, or even white. Hell, some might come from countries where this dynamic is entirely different.
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Again, I will call such examples of insensitivity, handwaving of the problems of racism as white privilege. I have provided explanations but you curiously frame my actions as simply because I disagree with these posters. It’s an interesting lack of nuance.


If you have not already start having a read what the term means:

White privilege is a social phenomenon.[15] Although the definition of "white privilege" has been somewhat fluid, it is generally agreed to refer to the implicit or systemic advantages that white people have relative to people who are the objects of racism; it is the absence of suspicion and other negative reactions that people who are objects of racism experience.[16]​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege

The way I see it, and suggested in the Wikipedia article, is such terms have been pilloried in the American culture wars by the usual rightwing anti intellectuals who dismiss almost any academic social analysis.
 
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Sideroxylon said:
Again, I will call such examples of insensitivity, handwaving of the problems of racism as white privilege. I have provided explanations but you curiously frame my actions as simply because I disagree with these posters.
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The only explanation you've provided that I can remember is that the people you label deserve the label. Hopefully you understand why that's not convincing. If you have another explanation that I've missed, feel free to link to it or to provide a post number for me to read.

It’s an interesting lack of nuance.
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Yes, that was my accusation ; that your labeling lacks nuance. Strange that you call me saying that as lacking nuance. Strange in that it doesn't make any logical sense.

If you have not already start having a read what the term means:
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I know exactly what the term means, thank you. It still doesn't justify the reflexive labeling. I've seen examples of the real thing, which is why I'm questioning your method.
 
I hate seeing this thread title popping up all the time because then I get an earworm from that Seal song "Wishing Well".
 
Belz... said:
The only explanation you've provided that I can remember is that the people you label deserve the label. Hopefully you understand why that's not convincing. If you have another explanation that I've missed, feel free to link to it or to provide a post number for me to read.



Yes, that was my accusation ; that your labeling lacks nuance. Strange that you call me saying that as lacking nuance. Strange in that it doesn't make any logical sense.



I know exactly what the term means, thank you. It still doesn't justify the reflexive labeling. I've seen examples of the real thing, which is why I'm questioning your method.
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You don’t understand the terms or the simple explanation given, but you sure think you do, which makes for an impossibility to engage.
 
Belz... said:
No the point is that you have no idea. You just assume that you're right.

You also assume that white = privileged.
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In the US that is accurate. They have never faced daily racism expressed at them in thousands of ways, and that is a privilege that they had. They get called back for job interviews far more often and the like.
 
Would anyone be interested in a Federal or State law that would make it illegal to combine an image of a black person with the word "monkey"?
 
William Parcher said:
Would anyone be interested in a Federal or State law that would make it illegal to combine an image of a black person with the word "monkey"?
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I wouldn't, but I'd sure be interested in living in a society in which no member of it would even consider that combining an image of a black person with the word "monkey" was defensible!
 
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