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Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

ponderingturtle said:
In the US that is accurate. They have never faced daily racism expressed at them in thousands of ways, and that is a privilege that they had. They get called back for job interviews far more often and the like.
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Thats racist. I'm white and I can face daily racisim if I want to. Bluuurgh
 
3point14 said:
This is very country specific, you know.
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If you read the accounts of black USA service men coming to the UK during WW2 they were greeted with open arms. Indeed the American officers tried to get the British to segregate and treat the black servicemen badly.

That of course is not to deny racism in the UK, it has at times been terrible but we never had legal segregation and so on. However we do seem to have "unconsciously" as a society adopted a lot of USA attitudes and even grievances.
 
Darat said:
If you read the accounts of black USA service men coming to the UK during WW2 they were greeted with open arms. Indeed the American officers tried to get the British to segregate and treat the black servicemen badly.
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My understanding is that there was actual fisticuffs.


That of course is not to deny racism in the UK, it has at times been terrible but we never had legal segregation and so on. However we do seem to have "unconsciously" as a society adopted a lot of USA attitudes and even grievances.
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Yes. Which pisses me off no end, to be honest.

We have enough cultural baggage (No blacks, No Irish, anyone?) without adopting all of their self imposed Jim Crow created ******** too.
 
Supporters say newly surfaced photos clear Longwood teacher at center of scandal; lawyer disagrees

News 12 Long Island said:
New photos have surfaced that are similar to the one at the center of a divisive controversy in the Longwood school community...

News 12 obtained more photos like the one at the center of the notice of claim that show students of different ethnicities. Some in the district say the new pictures prove that zoology teacher Edward Heinrichs was not mocking the African American students.

One of the newly surfaced pictures was provided to News 12 by a student who says it was taken in 2017. The student, who asked not to be identified, said students didn't think the photo was racist then.

“I feel like kids were just laughing, no one sounded offended when the picture came up,” she said. But she says she understands why some would say the picture with just African American students is racially insensitive.

However, John Ray, an attorney for the four African American students, says the newly unveiled photos do not clear the teacher whatsoever. "These new photos are yet further evidence of the disgraceful, racially-provocative intentions of the white teachers and school district," Ray said in a statement. “African Americans should never be labeled as monkeys, even amongst whites. These white teachers intentionally created a show to mimic old, racially offensive depictions of evolution from monkey to white man."...
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http://longisland.news12.com/story/...teacher-at-center-of-scandal-lawyer-disagrees


Longwood 'Monkey Do' Photo: New Pics Elicit Strong Reactions

Patch said:
New photos have emerged in the "monkey do" case surrounding the Longwood Central School District. The photos, taken during previous years' zoo field trips and obtained by News 12 Long Island, show both students of color and white students posing in the same position as one that initially sparked backlash, which depicted four black children with the "monkey do" caption.

John Ray, the lawyer representing the black students in a potential $12 million lawsuit against the district and its workers, said the photos depicting multi-ethnicity students serve as further evidence of racism, while a former student said she never saw the teacher, Edward Heinrichs, behave in a racist manner.

"These new photos are yet further evidence of the disgraceful, racially-provocative intentions of the white teachers and school district," Ray said in a news release. "African-Americans should never be labeled as monkeys, even amongst whites. These white teachers intentionally created a show to mimic old, racially-offensive depictions of evolution from monkey to white man. These teachers knew this. They tested the waters with the first few photos containing minorities. When they got away with it, they eliminated the whites and went for the racist gold in this year's slides."...
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https://patch.com/new-york/portjefferson/longwood-monkey-do-photo-new-pics-elicit-strong-reactions
 
Snipped from an op-ed piece by a local editor...

Newsday said:
...The community won’t benefit if a dedicated but imperfect teacher is fired. The four children won’t benefit if they’re convinced they’ve been so victimized by this slur that they can’t expect to make a living. Taxpayers all over the state won’t benefit if the New York Schools Insurance Reciprocal group Longwood (and most Island districts) belongs to has to pay out millions. And the district’s students won’t benefit if the administration has to go into full defensive mode rather than be allowed to face what happened and address it.

There is an opportunity here for a teachable moment and a set of lessons about racism that could bind a cohesive and diverse community even closer together. But for that to happen, everyone involved has to refuse to take steps that could rip that community apart.
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https://www.newsday.com/opinion/col...photograph-teacher-racism-students-1.40617341
 
What a ******* load. Neither the tradition of the stupid joke nor others' lack of offense exonerates the teacher.

As for the teacher being fired, that would seem to be up to the school district, not the people bringing the suit. The court can't hand down a verdict that includes termination of the teacher's employment and I strongly doubt that such a request is included in the lawsuit. Some additional sensitivity training should take care of that part of the problem.

Is this worth a payment of millions of dollars? No, probably not. It's worth the payment of something, though. People need to stop doing this **** and public schools have a particular responsibility to provide an environment where racism, sexism, etc. are actively, constantly discouraged.
 
Babbylonian said:
What a ******* load. Neither the tradition of the stupid joke nor others' lack of offense exonerates the teacher.

As for the teacher being fired, that would seem to be up to the school district, not the people bringing the suit. The court can't hand down a verdict that includes termination of the teacher's employment and I strongly doubt that such a request is included in the lawsuit. Some additional sensitivity training should take care of that part of the problem.

Is this worth a payment of millions of dollars? No, probably not. It's worth the payment of something, though. People need to stop doing this **** and public schools have a particular responsibility to provide an environment where racism, sexism, etc. are actively, constantly discouraged.
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I disagree. The history provides evidence to help mitigate any accusation of racisim or deliberate offence. Yes some racists hide behind the "it was a mistake" defence, however If they keep doing it, have a history of racisim or related bigotry, or become violent in their methods, thats the point where that defence does not become viable.
 
Darat said:
If you read the accounts of black USA service men coming to the UK during WW2 they were greeted with open arms. Indeed the American officers tried to get the British to segregate and treat the black servicemen badly.

That of course is not to deny racism in the UK, it has at times been terrible but we never had legal segregation and so on. However we do seem to have "unconsciously" as a society adopted a lot of USA attitudes and even grievances.
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Well there was initially blocking of allowing black women to serve in the land army to help farmers in WWII, under the argument that no farmer would want them. Then one stepped up and said he did and that went away. This was covered in an episode of Wartime Farm.
 
Babbylonian said:
People need to stop doing this **** and public schools have a particular responsibility to provide an environment where racism, sexism, etc. are actively, constantly discouraged.
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People are never, ever going to stop doing this ****, because to screw up in boneheaded ways every once in a while is what human do.
 
shuttlt said:
People are never, ever going to stop doing this ****, because to screw up in boneheaded ways every once in a while is what human do.
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"We're never gonna get white people to stop using monkey/ape imagery in references to blacks so don't even try" is... novel.
 
It is easy to feel outrage in response to some jury decisions with which we disagree. And yes some juries do make errors based on manipulation by the lawyers, or their own prejudices, or... But a friend of mine reminded me that they where there and I wasn’t. They heard facts and evidence I did not. They heard in person the relevant testimony. They were instructed by the judge as to the law and their own options and responsibilities; I was not.

It is important to remember this before believing a jury was in error in their judgement or award. They know more about the case than we do. And no, we are not routinely so much smarter than the jury however much we would like to believe it.
 
smartcooky said:
I wouldn't, but I'd sure be interested in living in a society in which no member of it would even consider that combining an image of a black person with the word "monkey" was defensible!
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Either we have laws to control such behavior, or I want people free to be able to "correct" people that pull that **** by whatever means they chose. Society MUST be able to make bad actors conform to the norms.
 
Giordano said:
It is easy to feel outrage in response to some jury decisions with which we disagree. And yes some juries do make errors based on manipulation by the lawyers, or their own prejudices, or... But a friend of mine reminded me that they where there and I wasn’t. They heard facts and evidence I did not. They heard in person the relevant testimony. They were instructed by the judge as to the law and their own options and responsibilities; I was not.

It is important to remember this before believing a jury was in error in their judgement or award. They know more about the case than we do. And no, we are not routinely so much smarter than the jury however much we would like to believe it.
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It can also be that the Jury hasn't seen or heard the evidence that we think is relevant or shows guilt or innocence. The defence or prosecution may not be aware of it, the evidence was not allowed by the judge because of reason X, many different reasons.
 
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