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Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

Newsday said:
"But Scott Twining, who said his five children were taught by the teacher under fire, said the slideshow had been a feature of the class for many years and students of all colors were included as a joke, not as a slur meant to harm. “They’re not racist,” he said of the slideshows, adding that he has black relatives and would not hesitate to allow them to be taught by Heinrichs. “They’re meant for fun.”
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Its the 21st century... its a different world we live in now

This might have been an OK thing in the 1970s and 80s and perhaps even in the 1990s.... its not OK now, and whether or not you personally agree with the way society has changed, it has and you have to accept that there will be consequences for this kind of thing.
 
smartcooky said:
You see, your attitude, well meaning as it might be, is the type that allows this kind of crap to continue to happen. What you are suggesting here is targeting of the person who actually did this, and giving the school district a slap on the hand with a wet tram ticket, . . . . . .
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Yes, this is a trivial case that doesn't warrant the ringing of the cash register.

smartcooky said:
Its the 21st century... its a different world we live in now

This might have been an OK thing in the 1970s and 80s and perhaps even in the 1990s.... its not OK now, and whether or not you personally agree with the way society has changed, it has and you have to accept that there will be consequences for this kind of thing.
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It is a horrifying development. Something you post on the internet could even years later become a money fountain for somebody.
 
We commonly read about juries that award enormous amounts of money. Then the judge drastically cuts the amount.

I'm curious about the psychology or laws behind this. Why do juries give away mega-jackpots and then judges just chop it way down?

I'm also curious if there is some record of the greatest chop-down. Something like the jury awarding $10 million and then the judge reducing it to $1,000.
 
psionl0 said:
Yes, this is a trivial case that doesn't warrant the ringing of the cash register.
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You're missing the point (and since you cherry picked what I posted, snipping out the explainer, I can only assume that you are missing it intentionally).

This might be a trivial case per se, but is it likely an indicator of deeper problems in the culture of that school district.

psionl0 said:
It is a horrifying development. Something you post on the internet could even years later become a money fountain for somebody.
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Hyperbole much!
 
William Parcher said:
We commonly read about juries that award enormous amounts of money. Then the judge drastically cuts the amount.

I'm curious about the psychology or laws behind this. Why do juries give away mega-jackpots and then judges just chop it way down?

I'm also curious if there is some record of the greatest chop-down. Something like the jury awarding $10 million and then the judge reducing it to $1,000.
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The most famous example is that of Stella Liebeck who sued McDonald's in 1994 for serving her coffee that was too hot and was awarded $2.86M (later cut back to $160,000).

This lead to the publication of a list of similar frivolous lawsuits known as the "Stella Awards". However, an investigation by Snopes.com found that all of the cases listed were fabrications. It appears that most frivolous lawsuits are either thrown out or judged in favour of the defendant. The main issue with frivolous lawsuits is the cost of defending them and this has lead some states to implement a variety of tort reform laws.
 
Jimmy9 said:
Monkey see, monkey do is an old saying for everyone.
People need to give this crap a rest.
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See, here's the problem with that attitude (and I'm guessing you're probably white)

White people haven't had to endure generations of being cast as inferior, being oppressed, being enslaved, being discriminated against, being denied their civil rights, being at a continual disadvantage in Society as a whole.

Just because your white privilege and the preferred treatment your race has received historically makes you immune from racial insult, it doesn't necessarily follow that other races should also be immune.
 
psionl0 said:
The most famous example is that of Stella Liebeck who sued McDonald's in 1994 for serving her coffee that was too hot and was awarded $2.86M (later cut back to $160,000).

This lead to the publication of a list of similar frivolous lawsuits known as the "Stella Awards". However, an investigation by Snopes.com found that all of the cases listed were fabrications. It appears that most frivolous lawsuits are either thrown out or judged in favour of the defendant. The main issue with frivolous lawsuits is the cost of defending them and this has lead some states to implement a variety of tort reform laws.
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Just for reference, the suing of McDonalds for the spilled coffee was not actually a frivolous lawsuit. At the time McDonalds was serving coffee at a temperature above the Industry standard, and had been warned multiple times that it was capable of causing serve burns if spilled. There have been numerous threads discussing this case on this forum including this one here from 2009.
 
psionl0 said:
I didn't address that part of your post because you made that up.
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No, you snipped it because you were unable or unwilling or simply didn't have the courage to address those issues... but never mind; my previous experience debating you has informed me that there is no point in further debate with you.

I would be wasting my time.
 
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Silly Green Monkey said:
"Mary, you've been a good teacher for many years, but it's recently come to our attention that you single out black students for animal-themed pictures. That doesn't reflect well on us."
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Is that the case? Have there been similar photos where the main difference has been that the students were white? If they treat everyone the same can they still be racist?
 
lionking said:
Please tell me you are joking.

Tell you what, go to your nearest black neighbourhood and start calling random people monkeys. I hope your family has funeral insurance.
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I don't see any reason to go around calling random people monkeys, completely out of context, but if I were to, I doubt it would result in murder.
 
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rjh01 said:
Is that the case? Have there been similar photos where the main difference has been that the students were white? If they treat everyone the same can they still be racist?
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Is this post a joke?
 
William Parcher said:
We commonly read about juries that award enormous amounts of money. Then the judge drastically cuts the amount.

I'm curious about the psychology or laws behind this. Why do juries give away mega-jackpots and then judges just chop it way down?

I'm also curious if there is some record of the greatest chop-down. Something like the jury awarding $10 million and then the judge reducing it to $1,000.
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I'm not sure that it's really that common, and I suspect that when you hear about it, it is because it's unusual enough to make news headlines. The most common reason for cutting a Jury award is where punitive damages are considered excessive, which is considered about 4:1 of compensatory damages. Most often jury awards are reduced on Appeal rather than by the presiding Judge.
 
smartcooky said:
See, here's the problem with that attitude (and I'm guessing you're probably white)

White people haven't had to endure generations of being cast as inferior, being oppressed, being enslaved, being discriminated against, being denied their civil rights, being at a continual disadvantage in Society as a whole.

Just because your white privilege and the preferred treatment your race has received historically makes you immune from racial insult, it doesn't necessarily follow that other races should also be immune.
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When the EXACT same picture and pose and words have been applied to white students, it is not racial insult. In fact, it's racist to think it is.
 
rjh01 said:
Is that the case? Have there been similar photos where the main difference has been that the students were white? If they treat everyone the same can they still be racist?
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There have been identical photos by the same teacher with white students, yes. I agree with you that this alone negates any claims of racism.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
There have been identical photos by the same teacher with white students, yes. I agree with you that this alone negates any claims of racism.
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a) post a link to them

b) how is this relevant, as white people haven't had generations of abuse by being dehumanised, with stupid monkey crap
 
rjh01 said:
Is that the case? Have there been similar photos where the main difference has been that the students were white? If they treat everyone the same can they still be racist?
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I can see where they were trying to make the Joke that Human are primates and so part of the same family as other great apes, and yeah, they might have done so with many other students all whom were white and it was never an issue. However that is because white people haven't historically been referred to as monkeys in a derogatory way. By putting four black students in the image, rather then a mixture of black and white, or only white, then the image plays into the stereotype and racial slur. It's like the difference between a picture of a white man standing in front of a tree with a noose hanging from it with the words "hang 'em high", and a picture of a black man standing in front of a tree with a noose hanging from it with the same words, or a picture of a man cooking with the words, his place is in the kitchen, compared to a picture of a woman with the same words.

It's a case of the connotations of the image and words, and these are different for white students and black students, and the teachers should have known this, and avoided them at all costs,. They didn't and now it's going to cost the school district and it's insurer a lot of money as punishment.
 
The big thing that comes out of this for me if this was as some say an innocent mistake.

The US must have some of the dimmest, vacant teachers in the western world.
 
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