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Monkey See. Monkey Do. Oops $12 million.

PhantomWolf said:
I can see where they were trying to make the Joke that Human are primates and so part of the same family as other great apes, and yeah, they might have done so with many other students all whom were white and it was never an issue. However that is because white people haven't historically been referred to as monkeys in a derogatory way. By putting four black students in the image, rather then a mixture of black and white, or only white, then the image plays into the stereotype and racial slur. It's like the difference between a picture of a white man standing in front of a tree with a noose hanging from it with the words "hang 'em high", and a picture of a black man standing in front of a tree with a noose hanging from it with the same words, or a picture of a man cooking with the words, his place is in the kitchen, compared to a picture of a woman with the same words.

It's a case of the connotations of the image and words, and these are different for white students and black students, and the teachers should have known this, and avoided them at all costs,. They didn't and now it's going to cost the school district and it's insurer a lot of money as punishment.
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^This! Very well explained.
Something okay when applied to one group can easily be racist and deeply offensive one applied to another. Absolutely!
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
When the EXACT same picture and pose and words have been applied to white students, it is not racial insult. .
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Yes, and when the EXACT same picture and pose and words have been applied to black students, it IS a racial insult. That is how the world works now - whether you like it or not. There is a long and disgraceful history of racists covertly using seemingly innocent phraseology as vitriolic speech, the use of common words giving them a form of plausible deniability. Context is everything.

If you were to hang a banana in a tree in this country, worldly as most New Zealanders are, MOST people would have utterly no idea of the significance. Do the same thing in the USA, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who didn't know it.

Call someone a "pikey" in America, most would be clueless as to the implications, but call them that in the UK, and you're likely to cop punch on the nose.
 
Doghouse Reilly said:
I don't see any reason to go around calling random people monkeys, completely out of context, but if I were to, I doubt it would result in murder.
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Why don’t you try it anyway? I’m certain you are a fine, non-racist citizen (actually I’m not certain, but for sake of argument) and you will be able to explain that because you are not racist, nobody should take offence.

Fair point about funeral insurance though. Hospital insurance should hopefully suffice.
 
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In the Newsday article:
“The four boys say, for now, they have been encouraged by the administration not to return to the science class and that they should expect to receive a grade of "incomplete" for the class.”

What? The kids get are ostracized from the class, are not given an alternative class, and are to be given incompletes?? The school as a whole appears incompetent and deserves whatever comes to them!
 
Giordano said:
In the Newsday article:
“The four boys say, for now, they have been encouraged by the administration not to return to the science class and that they should expect to receive a grade of "incomplete" for the class.”

What? The kids get are ostracized from the class, are not given an alternative class, and are to be given incompletes?? The school as a whole appears incompetent and deserves whatever comes to them!
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They are getting money instead and that makes it all right.
 
psionl0 said:
They are getting money instead and that makes it all right.
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Are you arguing with yourself? Because I fail to see how this addresses any point that anyone has raised. There’s a word for posts like this. Several words actually.
 
cullennz said:
a) post a link to them

b) how is this relevant, as white people haven't had generations of abuse by being dehumanised, with stupid monkey crap
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Here is your link https://abc7ny.com/5827320/

Parent Desmond Dent Sr. said he met with administrators and they showed him slideshows the teacher has done in the past of the class trip to the Bronx Zoo, which included white students doing the same pose with the same "monkey do" caption. Dent Sr. said administrators presented it to him to try to point out that the teacher didn't single out the African-American students.
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This link with a similar quote was provided earlier.

So treating white students like this is ok, but if done on black ones this is racist? I would suggest that the photo is in poor taste and the colour of the students' skin is not relevant. If it is relevant then black students have special privileges.

One reason why four black students and not some white students were in the group could be because they were all friends. Interesting thought. Teacher setting up the photo saying "you cannot be in it, I need to put this white student in it. I do not want to be accused of racism." I would suggest that that would be racism.

Also remember that so far NO ONE has been sued over this. They may never be, let alone a substantial award given.

There is one way to make a case that this is discrimination, even though all students are treated the same way and that is indirect discrimination.
See this link for more information https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...es-of-discrimination/indirect-discrimination/.
 
"So treating white students like this is ok, but if done on black ones this is racist?"

My god man.

I think you have it.....finally

Edit: When that specific reference is made
 
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smartcooky said:
Yes, and when the EXACT same picture and pose and words have been applied to black students, it IS a racial insult. That is how the world works now - whether you like it or not. There is a long and disgraceful history of racists covertly using seemingly innocent phraseology as vitriolic speech, the use of common words giving them a form of plausible deniability. Context is everything.

If you were to hang a banana in a tree in this country, worldly as most New Zealanders are, MOST people would have utterly no idea of the significance. Do the same thing in the USA, and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who didn't know it.

Call someone a "pikey" in America, most would be clueless as to the implications, but call them that in the UK, and you're likely to cop punch on the nose.
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Its 2020 and this still has to be explained.
 
rjh01 said:
Here is your link https://abc7ny.com/5827320/


This link with a similar quote was provided earlier.

So treating white students like this is ok, but if done on black ones this is racist? I would suggest that the photo is in poor taste and the colour of the students' skin is not relevant. If it is relevant then black students have special privileges.

One reason why four black students and not some white students were in the group could be because they were all friends. Interesting thought. Teacher setting up the photo saying "you cannot be in it, I need to put this white student in it. I do not want to be accused of racism." I would suggest that that would be racism.

Also remember that so far NO ONE has been sued over this. They may never be, let alone a substantial award given.

There is one way to make a case that this is discrimination, even though all students are treated the same way and that is indirect discrimination.
See this link for more information https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/l...es-of-discrimination/indirect-discrimination/.
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Just had to check my calendar. Yes it is 2020, not 1975 as it appears from posts like this.

And action will proceed unless sense prevails and the school settles beforehand.
 
cullennz said:
Awesome.

You have inside knowledge they are getting the money.

How much are they getting?
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The school is being sued for $12M.

Sure, the lawyers will make a big fist about the black oppression angle (that's what they get paid for) but now it's all about the money.
 
psionl0 said:
The school is being sued for $12M.

Sure, the lawyers will make a big fist about the black oppression angle (that's what they get paid for) but now it's all about the money.
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Well the racism can’t be undone and the school has not apologised, so punishment will be financial. Seems fair to me.
 
I wonder how the other students at that school now relate to these four boys. There would probably be a mixture of support and hostility. This teacher seems very popular there with lots of supporters. The four might be treated harshly by other students because they are essentially ousting this teacher and also suing the school for huge money.

It could get worse than it is now.
 
William Parcher said:
I wonder how the other students at that school now relate to these four boys. There would probably be a mixture of support and hostility. This teacher seems very popular there with lots of supporters. The four might be treated harshly by other students because they are essentially ousting this teacher and also suing the school for huge money.

It could get worse than it is now.
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All of which is because they say they are going to sue the school.

And it is ok for the photo to be reproduced? How is that not racism?
 
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