Moneymakin'! The BFRO Bigfoot Expeditions Thread.

[GT/CS]

That would be a far better guess that Bigfoot, that's for sure. Those links I gave actually make a strong case for a deer.

That's just what it's called at BFF because a poster there theorized that when one of the campers went behind the bush to do his business his buddy decided that would be a good time to test the camera. Sounds as good as any other theory. The 'long neck' may be due to the squatter looking up, over the bush, making sure he's still hidden.

If you watch the full-size version notice how the video starts where the image eventually appears, and also notice how the camera pans to the right near the end and then the image goes that direction. Amazingly intuitive camera work!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfGSiAuVt8

 

[kitakaze]

If you watch the full-size version notice how the video starts where the image eventually appears, and also notice how the camera pans to the right near the end and then the image goes that direction. Amazingly intuitive camera work!

Interesting point. Wouldn't hearing rustling in that direction account for that?

 

[GT/CS]

Interesting point. Wouldn't hearing rustling in that direction account for that?

In the beginning maybe but I don't think anything would be rustling to the right of the image before the guy runs off in that direction at the end.

Of course, it could be a coincidence that the camera moves that way at that time.

 

[Drewbot]

I wonder if they found the FECES, and said 'OMG BIGFOOT CRAP!', and the guy that actually Hung the Rat, was too embarrased to say "I dropped the kids off here last night guys" and they sent it in for testing, and it came back 'DNA matches Bob'

 

[GT/CS]

It seems appropriate that a thread about MMM derails to some guy taking a dump behind a bush.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

In my giant earlier post I referenced a BFRO claim of Bigfoot evidence called the Don Young Thermal Footage. I also noted that to see it you would have to register at Matt Moneymaker's website, thereby making your email address and IP adress available to him. Looking further I found he requests your full name:



I have found the Don Young Thermal Footage (skip to about 1:30 to see the action):


But far better is I found skeptical analysis of it:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kpVDmfloHBk

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W1M-greeNrU&feature=related

It's excellent.

So all this money going onto the BFRO and, all these expeditions, all this tech and that is their first ever thermal image.

Wow.

you should have read the other thread on it there. That "thermal" image didnt survive the first viewing.

 

[cbartow]

Checking In

Hello all-

I am Chris Bartow, one of the lucky few recently derided by Mr. Moneymaker speaking out about the BFRO pay-to-play expeditions.

I have been a frequent visitor/lurker here at JREF but figured it was time to join and post given the recent spat of personal attacks and threats made by Mr. Moneymaker under the namesake of the BFRO.

Chris

 

[Old man]

I have found the Don Young Thermal Footage (skip to about 1:30 to see the action)

That would be a far better guess than Bigfoot, that's for sure. Those links I gave actually make a strong case for a deer.

It's a person. The actions of the camera operator are enough for me. It's a hoax, imo.

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that that's a deer. I could clearly identify it in the first few seconds of the film, when the camera operator was panning back and forth over it. I can see it's ears, and at about 0:48 seconds it changes its head orientation from looking straight at the camera to looking to the camera operator's left. It appears to quarter toward the camera with it's head to the camera's right.

I disagree a little with the analysis video, because what I see is a deer that's quite close, and occupies close to a 20% of the vertical dimension of the vid. The thermal image is the animal's breath plume.

 

[William Parcher]

I think it's a human. At 1:45, they quickly move from left to right in a crouched posture with arm(s) hanging down. The form looks human to me. If it's a Bigfoot - it cannot be distinguished from a human.

 

[kitakaze]

Hello all-

I am Chris Bartow, one of the lucky few recently derided by Mr. Moneymaker speaking out about the BFRO pay-to-play expeditions.

I have been a frequent visitor/lurker here at JREF but figured it was time to join and post given the recent spat of personal attacks and threats made by Mr. Moneymaker under the namesake of the BFRO.

Chris

Hello, Chris. Welcome to the JREF. I'm looking forward to what you have to share with us.

I linked to Moneymaker's personal attack on Chris and his petiton to get personal information on those associated with him in an earlier post. It was buried in the middle of a huge link filled post so I will link it again here:

Catching more liars: Chris Bartow and ADK Manitou (aka "Jim")

Here's an excerpt:

One of the purposes of our $300 fee is to filter out the flakes and the transients and the people who are not serious about this subject .... but it spurned the formation of a few little regional groups, copying the BFRO in every way they could, and then using their little message boards to discourage curious lurkers on their forums from attending our trips ... because they didn't want those lurkers to figure out their little groups were just half-assed rip-offs of the BFRO.

What is essentially at issue here is that MM is attacking groups who promote free or low cost expeditions. The truth is that there is absolutely no reason to pay $300 dollars to go on a Bigfoot expedition before expenses. Their is nothing that the BFRO can and has offered that groups such as NESRA don't also offer ynless it is the presence of people like MM himself.

Some may remember NESRA as the group to which JREF poster and Bigfoot enthusiast Luminous/DTK used to belong. NESRA was prominantly featured in the recent MonsterQuest "Bigfoot in New York" episode focusing on alleged Bigfoot activity around Whitehall, NY. Steve Kulls was featured prominantly in that episode who many here will remember from his peripheral involvement in the Georgia Bigfoot hoax. Chris also appeared in the episode and can be seen here (starting around the 3:27 mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbdXoLd0C0c&feature=related

IMO, while I thought that Steve Kulls was certainly playing to the camera for that episode, I thought Chris as the head of NESRA represented his group quite reasonably and fairly. To me he comes across as the type of Bigfoot enthusiast that recognizes the inherent flaws with Bigfoot evidence thus far but nonetheless is committed to trying to change it.

I personally am not interested in debating Chris on the existence of Bigfoot unless there is some spurious claim by him I am unaware of. I would like to know how Chris feels about Moneymaker's attacks on him his organization and what he feel is the motivation behind them.

 

[cbartow]

KK-

Thanks for the interest and attention to this matter.

To be clear, I am not the head of NESRA - but I am one of its elected board members.

Let me also state that I am not speaking on behalf of NESRA here. What I state is for clarification and the opinions that follow are my own and not NESRA's

Also, I believe that there are good, diligent researchers in the BFRO... Some of whom I have had contact with on numerous occasions.

For starters, let me point out a clear delineation on the notion of 'field expeditions'. As KK points out, NESRA expeditions are free... However, only NESRA Full Members are allowed to attend and participate in these expeditions. And there is a membership process and grace period in becoming a Full Member.You can read detail about the types of NESRA membership at teamnesra.net.... But the point is this: we do not allow people we don't know to follow us into the field into remote wilderness environments nor do we provide them with field training and/or entertainment while also attempting to do legitimate field research, reconnaissance and surveillance. Why? It's quite simple... We feel commitment and trust must be established with new members before we share important research locations with them and this is directly tied to our membership process. I say this not to promote NESRA in any way, but to point that the premise of these expeditions is fundamentally different than BFRO expeditions. We also do not use field research outings as a revenue stream.

Mr. Moneymaker said that our group tried to "mimic" their expeditions and was "copying the BFRO in every way they could" and that he "...personally developed EVERY protocol used in the field on these types of expedition, including every protocol used by NESRA."

Those statements are unequivocally false.

As for Mr. Moneymaker's personal attacks on me... I was initially shocked that a fairly mild critical of post over two years old about a specific expedition Mr. Moneymaker coordinated in the Whitehall area in 2005 would yield such a vitriolic attack from him. Beyond that, I found his post about me and related post to attack anti-BFRO message boards sad but somewhat comical. I am not going to discuss the other people mentioned in the thread in which I was attacked, except to say I trust them as fair-minded and even-keeled gentlemen who are not motivated by money where bigfoot field expeditions are concerned.

Reading the attack, a certain word came to mind: Megalomania

Chris

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Welcome Chris

I can only speak for me and I am for facts, data and truth.

I'm sorry you were attacked and your character was potentially impugned.

I support your efforts and wish you success in your efforts.

If I may be of assistance, let me know but your knowledge and experience is very valuable in finding the truth.

 

[mikeyx]

edited

 

[kitakaze]

Hi,

I am also a NESRA member...(snip)

I fell down.

Mikeyx, I had no idea. Thanks for the clarification on MM seeking to put you guys in bed with Biscardi.

For anyone who didn't realize Steve Kulls appeared in the MQ episode before he was ostricized from Bigfoot enthusiast community for the GA affair.

 

[William Parcher]

Attacked by Bigfoot!!! (Well, by the BFRO) from Skepticblog.

First I received a couple of emails from Bigfoot aficionados, of the obscene and anonymous hotmail variety. Surprised, I went back to the old article, checked it over, and verified that it didn’t say anything inflammatory. It did not.

And then I got another email. This time it came from a little too close to home — about two miles away from my house, to be precise — and it said “I’m Matt Moneymaker, head of the BFRO.”

Somehow he interpreted my database article as a deliberate libelous attack against the BFRO. He told me to retract it and publish an apology (I did neither, of course). Simultaneously, and this was kind of entertaining, he kept me posted over the space of two or three days as my article was being discussed in committee. Evidently he and some of his BFRO associates were reviewing evidence in the jury room and passing judgement over me personally; whether I was an instigator, an obsessed anti-Bigfoot nut, just a crank, or what.

 

[makaya325]

Thats really cool chris. I once contacted the bfro regarding the accuracy of the faq, and once i began asking skeptical questions regarding the answers to the faq's, they said "just read it", and i kept on saying i did, and they say "no you didnt" and hung up

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Now it seems Meldrum is under attack for saying the Jacobs bear isnt a bigfoot
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=151130&threadid=1994386

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, Meldrum has no one to blame but himself there, imo. He opened the door.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Well, Meldrum has no one to blame but himself there, imo. He opened the door.

It wasnt his fault. "THEY" who work for "THEM" got to him before he could warn us all

From post

>>> Posted: January 11th, 2009 09:04 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-New post-
How do we know the goverment didn't get to Dr. Meldrum and convinced him to change his opinion?

They know it's out there and don't want the public to know because of mass hesteria.

Just my thoughts

 

[GT/CS]

What is Meldrum's official area of expertise? Is he rendering an opinion as bear vs bigfoot as an expert or as a layperson?