While it is my opinion based on the research I've done that the BFRO does engage in created events during some of its expeditions, I think it's important to bear in mind what longtabber has pointed out concerning evidence of scamming. I do not have hard, irrefutable, reliable evidence that the BFRO are engaging in activity on expeditions to influence people to think they've encountered Bigfoots. It takes so little and you're dealing with many people who are very soft targets, willing to believe, that achieving your goals would be very easy with minimum effort that would be very hard to catch.
Let's put aside a moment the issue of alleged scamming and examine the expeditions themselves, their legitimacy, and their value. First let's look to the BFF's thread
I'm game...Has anyone ever attended a BFRO expedition?
and the testimony of some BFRO expedition attendees who answered Matt Moneymaker's call:
blueboy says:
Yes, my wife and I and children have been on many BFRO expeditions. We enjoy them and we meet alot of great people. And have formed some great relationships thru the past years. We find them very informative, and on occassions have experience with others, some sightings and experiences. We have found foot prints with toes, we have heard vocalizations (many different kinds) " and just not from Bigfoot/sasquatches"
The best part of going on a BFRO expedition "campout" is the many people and relationships that we have formed. With the information that we have learned from these outings, and we are glad to be able to share it on this forum with you great folks.
blueboy
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24394&view=findpost&p=503993
Blueboy refers to sightings that have allegedly occurred though it doesn't seem clear if he is definitely claiming that. He speaks of is the social aspect of meeting people and learning new things.
Sneeky says:
I have been on several and have enjoyed everyone. I think the best part of a BFRO expedition is the amount of knowledge represented at each one. Even though everyone doesn't agree, they all have valuable input and experiences to share. Also, the things I learn on BFRO expeditions I use on my private expeditions and they have produced results. I would recommend trying one out for yourself. Like most things in life, it is best to make your own, informed decision instead of taking the word of someone sitting in their basement typing on a computer, and I mean not taking the word of people on both side of the BFRO debate, pro or con.
Todd in Utah
"Take joy in the journey."
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24394&view=findpost&p=504010
A mention of the social aspect with the emphasis on information learned. It does, of course, beg the question of the results produced that Todd refers to. Todd advocates making an informed decision. The question that occurs to me is whether or not one can make an informed decision about giving $300 to the BFRO to join an expedition without doing it once. For many people $300 dollars is a lot of money, particularly now.
This from regular BFF member Painthorse:
I had always been curious about how the bfro operated and when I accidentally came upon the opportunity to experience it for myself I invited a group doing an expedition locally to my property. In all fairness, at least during my experience the group was well organized and worked well together. Also many people interested in this field just can't afford the "expensive toys" like the thermals that were being used.
I am not bfro, this is not a plug for the bfro, only what I experienced.
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24394&view=findpost&p=504016
That seems like a good point. You pay $300 dollars, you get to go camping with an organization that has lots of hi-tech toys to play with. The question is then whether or not that expense is worth it and what kind of hi-tech toys a person interested in getting out in the woods looking for Bigfoot could get into starting at $300.
Here is the
Tools and Equipment subforum of the BFF,
Technology and Tools subforum at Bigfootdiscussions, and the
Equipment section of the Alliance of Independant Bigfoot Researchers forum to help people get started examining that question.
In response to blueboy's testimony BFF regualr eldonkey says:
As a past attendee, I would agree with this analysis. It is very much a social event, and not as much of an organized research effort. I met a quite a few great, honest folks on the expo we went on, but in the final analysis, when it came to fulfilling the purpose of finding evidence of BF's existence, it fell way short.
I would save the $300-400 dollars and put the money to field equipment. You could just as easily put together a crew of 6-8 folks from your local area for free, and have a much more effective time out in the field.
Somehow, I don't see a caravan of 14 vehicles driving for hours through the thick back country of Arizona at 2:00 in the morning as the most effective way of finding BF's, opr any other creatures, for that matter. But that is what essentially my $400 bucks got me. That and the opportunity to see actual footprint casts, and of course, the privelage to work with "top notch " BF investigator Matt Moneymaker.
http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24394&view=findpost&p=504405
Eldonkey refers to the positive social aspect, the chance to see casts, but an overall waste of money in terms of searching for Bigfoot.
BFF regular COGrizzly speaks of a friend who joined a BFRO Wisconsin expedition:
Great posts everyone.
I have nothing against the Beefro. There are some good people there. However, in my opinion, it seems they are out to make money and here is why I say that.
I have not been on a Beefro Ex. I was invited to "join in" last minute, at one point in time, no charge, but had previous plans. I also did not agree with the area they checked out at that time of year. And with that said...
My old roommate from MPLS and good friend did attend a WISCO Ex. Upon return, he was very disapointed and felt that he wasted his money. He said they were hearing coyote howls and members of the Beefro were saying they were bf. Long and short is that he came back very disappointed. He mentioned that he probably was the most experienced camper/outdoorsman out there. Perhaps these expeditions are good for the novice?
That's just one story. Maybe other experiences are much better.
Nothing wrong with making money, unless you are being misleading. They do have some equipment I would never buy.
An experienced outdoorsman dissatisfied with BFRO members interpetting coyote as Bigfoot. This is certainly not the first time we've heard of footers doing this. The interesting point that CO raises is about there being nothing wrong with making money as long as your not being misleading. We'll have a good look at whether or not the BFRO is being misleading but first one more comment on a different board from another friend of an outdoorsman that attended a BFRO expedition. Rastaman says:
Awhile back I was talking to someone who attended last years Vancouver Island expedition and they were not too impressed with it. This person was a hunter and an all around experienced outdoorsman and saw it only as a good experience for someone with little knowledge of the outdoors and whats out there, and felt he good do better on his own.
If the BFRO don't even have any good concrete photo evidence up to now after numerous expeditions, then what's that telling you about the success of these expeditions? I believe anyone walking in the woods might get good or even better photo evidence themselves in a well chosen area without any help from the BFRO.
Some believe the BFRO may possibly even be planting people in the woods during these expeditions to spice up and gain more interest in their expeditions. Who knows?
http://grandcherokee.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=giant&action=display&thread=183&page=1#1413
Speculations of scamming aside, rastaman does raise a good point. BFRO has been doing these expeditions for a long time now. Where's the beef? I've already posted on the BFRO's excuses about focusing efforts on a specific area and the also the idea of habitiuation. What you will often here is talk about the BFRO having evidence which it does not release to the public. In the Fox News interview with Moneymaker I linked to in my previous post Moneymaker alludes to it. What does Moneymaker have to say about the evidence they've come up with from these expeditions and the idead of it being withheld? Well, in counter to what he said on Fox, he had this to say at his thread calling for help with "anti-BFRO propaganda.":
Matt Moneymaker/Navigator said:
BTW, the answer to that question is:
NO, we do not withhold any evidence that is owned or controlled by the BFRO.
Do we withhold other people's evidence?
No, not really. We are not "withholding" anything that we have the right to disclose ...
However, as you might expect, some things are shared with us in confidence. We can't do much about that, unless we want to make sure that no one ever shares anything with us again ...
We have certainly talked about stuff we don't control, publicly, at risk of not hearing further updates about it. We've disclosed a lot more than we were authorized to do ... but somehow that gets distorted by frustrated people who think we're keeping it from them, just because we're disclosing a preview.
Do we publish GPS coordiantes of the places we are going, or the places we have been, or the places might return to in the field ??
Answer: NO, of course not ... And coincidentally, no one else does either ... Well, I should say, no one who actually goes in the field ...
This guy popping up with his own ignorant answer for the misleading question of why the BFRO withholds evidence ... is exactly the kind of thing that happens on those outside forums. It is the sort of thing you all need to be vigilant about, and contest it whenever you see it, even if it is obviously just a troll.
Where it started is not as important as where it is going. We all know now where it started, but we don't know where it is going.
By the way, the owner of BigfootForums.com -- the despicable Brian "Bipto" Brown in Minnesota (the most rabidly envious BFRO-hater of all) -- has recently communicated a threat to do more of this -- discourage people from attending BFRO expeditions. Bipto has, of course, never attended a BFRO expedition.
(Edited by Navigator)
Hey, there's the Bipto info I was wondering about.
So Moneymaker says they aren't really withholding anything in contradiction with saying that they do on Fox and what his own website says:
There are some photos/footage of bigfoots which have not been released publicly, and there are ongoing efforts to obtain more and better photos/footage at those same locations.
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=150505&threadid=1652357
Luckily we have BFRO forum admin PBYodeler to help us find out what some of this evidence the BFRO has is:
PBYodeler said:
Have you not looked at the Pam Lovins footage? Or even the Don Young thermal footage? How about the Jacobs photos? Who told you we were withholding all of our evidence from the public? If you're going to make accusations then back them up with some proof. Don't just tell us that you "heard it" somewhere. That's the kind of rumors that Navigator is asking for help with.
I note that Yodeler didn't refute that the BFRO withholds evidence but rather that they withhold all of it. So what is this evidence that Yodeler is talking about? He isn't being helpful with any links so we're left to hunt for it ourselves. Let's see what we come up with. The Jacobs photos are of course the Pennsylvania trailcam
photos of a mangey bear that the BFRO keeps on there front page. Now follows the reference to a Pam Lovins footage and a Don Young thermal footage. The BFRO database reports on those can be found respectively here:
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=24674
http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=24265
What you will note right away is that while they are available to the public, there is the slight hiccup of being required to make an account at the BFRO's discussion board which will give them access to personal information of yours such as your e-mail address and IP address. "What's the big deal?" you might say. The big deal is that now Moneymaker has your personal info. If you disagree with the quality of that evidence and venture to voice your opinion in a format that Moneymaker can not control you have just opened yourself to harrassment and legal threats by him. What many people are not aware of is that Moneymaker has J.D. degree in law (not a lawyer, he has not passed the bar exam) and is infamous for threatening litigation against those that are critical of his Bigfoot ventures. The following is a detailed news article on Moneymaker, how he got into Bigfoot, his legal training, and his claimed Bigfoot sighting:
http://www.ocregister.com/news/bigfoot-sasquatch-bigfoot-1935838-field-researchers
Here are some examples of Moneymaker's litigous legal threats:
http://www.cryptomundo.com/bigfoot-report/lawsuit2/
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/bigfootcentral/
I have a far better and more graphic example of threatening behaviour by Moneymaker that I will discuss once I have permission to do so. When Matt Moneymaker does not have your personal information and he wishes to get at you for being critical of his Bigfoot ventures he will enlist help from the BFRO's discussion board to get to you. Here is a prime example of that:
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread.php?forumid=125147&threadid=1977901
To be fair, the criticisms came from another rival Bigfoot organization called the North Easter Sasquatch Researchers Association. Here is their website:
http://www.teamnesra.net/drupal/
And expeditions page:
http://teamnesra.net/drupal/?q=taxonomy/term/4
It is understandable that Moneymaker felt threatened by criticisms from an organization conducting expeditions without the exorbitant fees charged by the BFRO.
So now let us re-examine whether or not the BFRO misleads prospective expedition attendees. First, another look at the youtube commercial for the BFRO's expeditions:
Come Along With Us.
This commercial is very specific about emphasizing coming in contact with Bigfoot rather than the social networking aspect. Then there is the statement in my op in which the BFRO gives high statistical odd of encountering Bigfoot in some fashion. What is unfortunate is that the organization passes themselves of as scientific (they used to say they were the only scientific organization exploring the question of Bigfoot until they got too much heat particularly after the exodus of BFRO members started).
So where does that leave a person interested in Bigfoot expeditions? Does one need to spend $300? Not at all. If you are interested in meeting some people with interests in Bigfoot, maybe get a chance to play with some tech, see some casts, and listening to the opinions of people who consider themselves knowledgable about Bigfoot then go ahead. You can get all of these things without spending hundreds of dollars and just a little research on the internet. There are communities of Bigfoot enthusiasts all over the continent that are more than eager to welcome new members and organize activities
Here is the most important thing to remember, that person who thinks they are knowledgable about Bigfoot knows no more than you do. There is not one single stitch of reliable evidence to support their claims. Bigfoot very likely does not exist. Everything that we have seen to date is completely what we would expect with a social construct just like UFOs and the like. Going out with some friends camping is just will not leave you in a worse position than Moneymaker and his BFRO in terms of available reliable evidence of Bigfoot.
I think it best to finish this post with the following. An interview between Matt Moneymaker and George Noory so Moneymaker can speak for himself on his organization and his expeditions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRUaqoNAUYI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aruqhGWcTyo&feature=related
And this quote from him:
The purpose of the expeditions has NEVER been to make the expeditions more popular, but rather to refine the methods for finding these animals, and refine the techniques for filming and recording animals at night without any kind of artificial illumination.
2008 - 18 Scheduled expeditons.
2009 - 26 Scheduled expeditions.
@#$% to show for it with reliable evidence.
