Merged Molten metal observations

Java Man said:
But heat also evaporates the acid if you know, its above the melting point of aluminium. Sulfuric acid boils at about 340º.

You also have to consider that battery acid is relatively low concentration acid. How many batteries would you require to do away with that beam?
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When the electrolyte boils over it evaporates (over time) and leaves sulfate all over. This attacks the metal over months and years. Heat, apparently, speeds the process.
 
leftysergeant said:
funny thing about sulphuric acid. You can store it in a highly concentrated condition in a steel bottle. Add as little as ten percent water and it eats right through it.
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But that's not the case with battery acid is it? Got any idea how many liters of battery acid would be required to destroy a beam like that?
 
Justin39640 said:
When the electrolyte boils over it evaporates (over time) and leaves sulfate all over. This attacks the metal over months and years. Heat, apparently, speeds the process.
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Maybe you can help Lefty in coming up with a value of the amount of battery acid required to destroy the beam like that.
 
Java Man said:
But that's not the case with battery acid is it? Got any idea how many liters of battery acid would be required to destroy a beam like that?
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Java Man said:
Maybe you can help Lefty in coming up with a value of the amount of battery acid required to destroy the beam like that.
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So we are going to talk about the corroded steel piece from WTC 7 now despite your warning that it would derail the thread....

You seem to have missed the point about sulphates. There are two senarios that are equally valid;
1) that the corrorsion is the result of years of attack by acid deposits which originate from the city air itself. Unprotected steel, concrete,marble, limestone all are known to be affected by such attacks especially if exposed to rainwater.(acid rain)
2) the corrorsion took place during the time when the steel was in the fire and or rubble fire AND in contact with a material with a moderate to high sulphur content such as gypsum board, pvc piping or several other candidates.

I asked you above what properties of thermate, as an incindiary, would allow it to corrode this piece in the fashion we see.

So far you have yet to respond.
 
jaydeehess said:
So far you have yet to respond.
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I asked earlier when he initially brought it up, and he stated he could not explain it. Simple fact is thermi*te burns at a high enough temperature to melt the material. There are no such characteristics in the sample
 
jaydeehess said:
2) the corrorsion took place during the time when the steel was in the fire and or rubble fire AND in contact with a material with a moderate to high sulphur content such as gypsum board, pvc piping or several other candidates.
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How many liters of sulfuric acid (battery grade) would be required to destroy a beam like that?

Here I'll give you a tip:

Mass fraction H2SO4 Density (kg/L) Concentration(mol/L) Common Name
10% 1.07 ~1 dilute sulfuric acid
29–32% 1.25–1.28 4.2–5 battery acid
(used in lead–acid batteries)
62–70% 1.52–1.60 9.6–11.5 chamber acid
fertilizer acid
78–80% 1.70–1.73 13.5–14 tower acid
Glover acid
95–98% 1.83 ~18 concentrated sulfuric acid


Molecular formula H2SO4
Molar mass 98.086 g/mol
Density 1.84 g/cm3, liquid
 
DGM said:
Nope. Where does sulfur fall into the thematic reaction and how would this effect the "fashion we see"?
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Yes it does. How are you coming along with the calculations on the amount of acid required to support your battery-melt-o-matic theory?
 
They were giving an example of acid corroding metal, not saying that batteries had anything to do with that beam.

The beam sat in a large fire full of sulfur containing materials and steam. It corroded away, it didn't melt.
 
phunk said:
They were giving an example of acid corroding metal, not saying that batteries had anything to do with that beam.

The beam sat in a large fire full of sulfur containing materials and steam. It corroded away, it didn't melt.
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So it was acid formed by sulfur? Once again. How much acid would be required to produce that effect?
 
How would I know?

There are too many unknown variables given just that picture. We don't know from that picture how much metal was corroded away, at what temperature, humidity, duration, etc.
 
phunk said:
How would I know?

There are too many unknown variables given just that picture. We don't know from that picture how much metal was corroded away, at what temperature, humidity, duration, etc.
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Well most of those variables don't matter. Acid isn't going to corrode more at a higher temperature. It might corrode it faster, but once all the acid is spent it's gone. And we do know the mass of the beam. One SO4 will match up with one Fe to make FeSO4. You start with H2SO4 and a big block of Fe. Do the math.
 
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