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Modest immigration proposal

Maybe we should fix the problem the other direction and just move the southern border to the north side of the Panama Canal.

That was actually sort of what I was thinking, but through treaties, rather than conquering. The countries directly to the south of us aren't exactly a threat. What problems are there, we can help with (and have been, to a degree anyway). The first step is to get the drug issue out of the equation somehow... and since we're the ones causing it in the first place, it is actually our problem to solve, not theirs. MJ legalization (with proper regulation) is the first step... the other drug involved (cocaine) is somewhat less common but more dangerous... maybe a different tack on that one.

Our worst drug problem right now (Meth) is mostly manufactured right here in the US anyway. All that takes is someone with the chemistry skills to know how to do it... no plantation necessary.
 
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I feel like a broken record but the border problem isn't about people its about economics. If you want people to stop coming here illegally you need to spend the resources hunting down the people that are employing them. Arrest the CEO's of these companies, lock up the board of directors, and anyone else involved.

Save all the money you would spend on fencing, detention centers, and processing and instead take away the motive to come here.

Of course this would cause in increase in labor costs for a whole range of goods and services which of course will be passed onto the consumer. Pretty soon everyone in America will want to rethink the whole "kick out the brown people."
 
We can't depend on our neighbors to the south to fix the problem. This is our problem. I am all for large-scale detention on the border and expedited immigration trials. This is the solution: You catch them, take care of their humanitarian needs while we detain them, then send them back. Once you release them into communities, you will never see most of them again.

Alternatively, we simply allow them to immigrate and give them legal status. But I think all of us understand the problems such a policy would cause.

How exactly does the highlighted take place?

Busses? Trains? Planes? Who pays for that?
 
Alternatively, we simply allow them to immigrate and give them legal status. But I think all of us understand the problems such a policy would cause.

The Chinese would stampede over the Mexicans trying to get in?
 
How exactly does the highlighted take place?



Busses? Trains? Planes? Who pays for that?


All of the above, as necessary. You and I pay for it, of course.

You make it sound as if this is something new. We deport people from all over the world all the time.
 
Maybe we should fix the problem the other direction and just move the southern border to the north side of the Panama Canal.

I think we can include all of Panama. The Darien Gap is a more significant barrier than the canal.

ETA: "West side" of the Panama Canal makes more sense.
 
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All of the above, as necessary. You and I pay for it, of course.

You make it sound as if this is something new. We deport people from all over the world all the time.

Well, I hear a lot about just sending them back. nonchalant, like putting a foam back in the water. Which leads me to believe use not that easy.

I've yet to hear the heartless say exactly how they get sent back, is all.
 
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Alternatively, we simply allow them to immigrate and give them legal status. But I think all of us understand the problems such a policy would cause.

Too many brown people?

Too many people who actually want to work, and would pay taxes?

Too close to how the US became what it is now by being a nation of immigrants?

Help me out here...
 
Too many brown people?

Too many people who actually want to work, and would pay taxes?

IMO, the fear of being undercut economically is more virulent than straight-up racism. I'd also like to hear more about "the problems all of us understand" cited above.

There's a downside to giving all who enter a temporary rubber stamp of legality. Also an upside.
 
IMO, the fear of being undercut economically is more virulent than straight-up racism. I'd also like to hear more about "the problems all of us understand" cited above.

There's a downside to giving all who enter a temporary rubber stamp of legality. Also an upside.

The downside would include the loss of cheap, exploitable illegal immigrant labor.

The upside would include more taxpayers.
 
Do I really have to educate you all on why allowing any and all comers into the US as legal immigrants is a a bad idea? Do you really think that objections to opening our border hinge on racism? Do you really think the US of today is the US of the 1800s?
 
Do I really have to educate you all on why allowing any and all comers into the US as legal immigrants is a a bad idea? Do you really think that objections to opening our border hinge on racism? Do you really think the US of today is the US of the 1800s?

Okay, I'll bite. What are these horrifying consequences which you abjectly fear, and why are you not man enough to face them?
 
Okay, I'll bite. What are these horrifying consequences which you abjectly fear, and why are you not man enough to face them?

That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? "Horrifying consequences...abject fear...man enough..." That's quite a bit of twisting you have to do to change my mention of "problems," into making me seem like a fearmongerer. But I understand why you have to do it....

The biggest problem I see with open borders is, simply put, allowing any and all into the country will overload our system. Welfare, education, employment - we already have problems with this. An influx of unskilled labor will make it worse.
 
That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? "Horrifying consequences...abject fear...man enough..." That's quite a bit of twisting you have to do to change my mention of "problems," into making me seem like a fearmongerer. But I understand why you have to do it....

The biggest problem I see with open borders is, simply put, allowing any and all into the country will overload our system. Welfare, education, employment - we already have problems with this. An influx of unskilled labor will make it worse.

They're also consumers. They buy products. On average, they're younger than our aging population, changing the social security equation that is already plaguing us. They're also no more likely to be on welfare than anyone else (actually less likely).

If teachers are in demand (education complaint) then teachers get paid more, that's a good thing, I think. It would mean that the job is actually worth going to college for again. If worse comes to worst, we have the technology for distance learning classrooms (home schooled, but by professionals) to gradually replace actual public schools. It's just a matter of time before we end up going to that anyway. The fact that it would be so much cheaper pretty much demands it. It also takes care of the fact that different kids learn at a different pace if done right. Child care costs would be the new problem here, of course, since elementary school is also a form of child care. There's probably solutions there too though (a higher wage at the bottom would help). If nothing else, child care doesn't normally require a 4 year degree at a university... so again it's still cheaper to go the tech based route and ask parents to do the education supervising, even if the government is still paying for/subsidizing child care and sticking its nose in occasionally (Once a week maybe? Once a month?), especially when there's problems.

Education could go any of several different ways, actually. It'll evolve on its own, with or without immigrants. according to society's needs (and yeah, I'm not sure my ideas would be ideal either). When there's an actual need (and even when there isn't), we'll have no shortage of ideas in terms of ways to deal with it I'm sure. I'm thinking we aren't moving ahead quickly enough as it is. Added pressure might actually help to speed up the process.

Basically, adding more to the bottom only raises the others already here up. Economically, it all takes care of itself, and what doesn't take care of itself can be compensated for by targeted change. Weirdly, the free market economy desired by the same people wanting immigrants to stay out takes care of most of it. There may be an extra little wobble here and there, but it's hardly an imminent disaster.

Change is always imminent, and it's better to embrace it than to fight it, especially when fighting it is a losing battle that nonetheless costs more money.
 
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That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? "Horrifying consequences...abject fear...man enough..." That's quite a bit of twisting you have to do to change my mention of "problems," into making me seem like a fearmongerer. But I understand why you have to do it....

The biggest problem I see with open borders is, simply put, allowing any and all into the country will overload our system. Welfare, education, employment - we already have problems with this. An influx of unskilled labor will make it worse.

These people come here to work, pay taxes and consume - same as citizens. The idea that this is okay for white folks and not okay for brown folks is racist.

Seriously, this is the same crap that right-wing politicians use to pander to racists over here - and it´s just as wrong where you live as where I live.
 
The only problem there is a key one - At the moment, Mexico is not that much of a country and has not much control of a lot of it's people - Maybe not as bad as Honduras and Guatemala, but I really can't see cooperation with governments/their police when those police are under the impression that bribes are gifts from god/a nice job perc.......

Now, if Mexican police start shooting narco's and coyotes on sight, I'll be happy to listen.......

Yeah, the problem with that solution is that Mexican Law Enforcement has reached a whole new level in corruption,perhaps matched only by Law Enforcement in Sicily during the height of the Mafia's Control of that island.
 
Do I really have to educate you all on why allowing any and all comers into the US as legal immigrants is a a bad idea? Do you really think that objections to opening our border hinge on racism? Do you really think the US of today is the US of the 1800s?

Somehow I think that we would hear a lot less about illegal immigratation if the flood was of English Speaking Canadians....

I note you do not address the idea that one good way of cracking down on illegal immigratation is to go after the people employing them. But most of those people are rich, white,Anglo Republicans so we I don't think we will hear much from you about that.....
 
That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? "Horrifying consequences...abject fear...man enough..." That's quite a bit of twisting you have to do to change my mention of "problems," into making me seem like a fearmongerer. But I understand why you have to do it....

The biggest problem I see with open borders is, simply put, allowing any and all into the country will overload our system. Welfare, education, employment - we already have problems with this. An influx of unskilled labor will make it worse.

Can you offer solid statistical proof of your last statement.

If I were convinced that racism was not behind a lot of this anti immigrant hysteria, I would be a lot more comfortable with the idea of strict controls.

In about Ten Years, White Europeans will not longer be the numerical majority in the US. This will happen if immigratation were to stop today. And I think a lot of the right wing Whites are panicking over this.
It is really going to bad in Texas,where there will be a Hispanic Majority in a few years. And, frankly, contempt and dislike for Hispanics is widespread among Anglo Texans.
 
These people come here to work, pay taxes and consume - same as citizens. The idea that this is okay for white folks and not okay for brown folks is racist.
Who said that it was ok for white folks and not brown folks? Certainly not me or anyone else posting in this thread.

I like to use this analogy: if a homeless stranger snuck into your home, would you allow them to stay? I suspect you wouldn't; you would call the police and have them removed. And the reasons why you would do that would would have nothing to do with race. You would be concerned with them stealing your stuff and hurting you and your family. You can't have an open door policy when it comes to your home.

Seriously, this is the same crap that right-wing politicians use to pander to racists over here - and it´s just as wrong where you live as where I live.
I live in McAllen, TX - right on the border. I am Hispanic/Anglo. Take a look one day at the demographics and welfare statistics in my neck of the woods. I live this problem every day.
 

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