Mobertermy's Pentagon Evidence

Mobertermy said:
AW, I asked you a queston. Can't you just give me a straight forward answer? Allow me to answer for you then...you think most of your memories are basically reliable.
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Useless question. Any answer would likely involve great personal bias. Also, the accuracy of a person's memories can not possibly be determined by that person alone. It can't even be reliably determined by querying the memories of another person.

The accuracy of a person's memory can only be truly determined by how well it matches whatever physical, documentary, or empirical evidence is available.

Eyewitness testimony is only relied upon if there is no other available evidence; it is never used to overrule "real-world" evidence. Truth is determined by what is, not what is remembered.
 
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Mobertermy aren't you at least a LITTLE curious as to why there are absolutely 0 witnesses and 0 evidence of physical evidence manipulation at the site? Or do you just think they were that good, and accept the evidence was manipulated without question solely based on your eye-witnesses recollections?

Be honest: what would jury a court of law have to say about that? What do you envision a cross examination would be like if you were on the stand?
 
Mobertermy,

This video may be of assistance to you. It's about perspective viz the Pentagon on 9/11, and I think it does a good job of showing why people in different locations described things the way they did, and also how and why they are not inconsistent with the actual flight path that is proven to have occurred.

 
Mobertermy said:
John, isn't it a tad hypocritical of you to claim that the witness testimony is worthless since you are the one that started this whole witness investigation to begin with (or am I mistaken).
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You are mistaken. That was CIT and friends. In this case, I use eyewitness accounts just like I was trained to do and did for 12 years. Take them collectively understanding that NOONE has perfect recall. The amount of degradation of the memory is based on a multitude of factors.

I used to train our facility employees in the basics principles behind statistical methods (my specialty). I would put up a powerpoint slide with a selected reading and ask the class (usually around 30) to count the number of f's in it. Even in that controlled environment where they had ample time to make the count, there would be a wide range of answers. Plotted in a histogram, their answers would form a perfect Gaussian (normal) curve.

What CIT (and you) have done are to take eyewitness accounts from ONLY one side of the actual flight path. That will result in a skewed result with a mean north of the actual path. It is the same effect I would have seen if in the example above I had only take the answers that were less than the actual number.

They encountered the same thing west of the Sheraton when they interviewed only people located south of the flight path. The resultant was an eyewitness path that was skewed to the south.

No, I've gone behind CIT and talked to a great deal more people that witnessed the event on BOTH sides of the flight path. Where possible, I got the original "as it happened" records (such as the ACPD dispatch audio).

Contrary to your misstatements, taken collectively the eyewitnesses support the official, fdr, radar, or SoC path, whichever name you wish to use. But if you only take the accounts of people located north of the path as valid eyewitnesses, then you draw an erroneous conclusion as to what the path was.

Why do you think so many convicted rapists and murderers had to be set free after DNA testing came along? Because most had been convicted based on eyewitness accounts ... and eyewitnesses get it wrong!
 
Mobertermy said:
You're not just gonna make a bare assertion and then reverse the burden of proof are you?
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As noted on every page and almost every message in this thread, it begins with a "bare assertion" which is baseless.
It IS up to you to present facts supporting it.
You, as mentioned, CANNOT! .
 
twinstead said:
Mobertermy aren't you at least a LITTLE curious as to why there are absolutely 0 witnesses and 0 evidence of physical evidence manipulation at the site? Or do you just think they were that good, and accept the evidence was manipulated without question solely based on your eye-witnesses recollections?

Be honest: what would jury a court of law have to say about that? What do you envision a cross examination would be like if you were on the stand?
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In my opinion it is no different than if the mafia ran a police station in some city and was put in charge of investigating the mafia.
 
BCR,

My problem is that I haven't seen any witnesses that support the official path. None. I can't stand CITers so I have no reason to want to discount any SoC paths. They just don't exist in my opinion. Someone like Wheelhouse is the closest I've come to this.
 
Mobertermy said:
In my opinion it is no different than if the mafia ran a police station in some city and was put in charge of investigating the mafia.
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Really? No deathbed confessions? No smack talk in a bar? Nothing? That's all you have to say? Every first responder, every DNA analyst, every forensic investigator, every radar operator, everybody is lying and keeping with their story? You are describing omnipotence, not the "mafia".

Why does this make sense to you, especially almost a decade later? See, to me you have rationalized away a HUGE chunk of evidence, inserted a handful of witnesses who were purposefully grouped to the North of the "official path".
 
Mobertermy said:
BCR,

My problem is that I haven't seen any witnesses that support the official path. None. I can't stand CITers so I have no reason to want to discount any SoC paths. They just don't exist in my opinion. Someone like Wheelhouse is the closest I've come to this.
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Doesn't matter anyway. Physical evidence trumps eyewitness accounts any day of the week. The evidence does not support your NoC beliefs and you have not proven the evidence was tampered with our manipulated. Therefore...you are wrong. Until you can come with more than bare assumptions....the facts, as they are known today, stand strong. Sorry buddy...them's the rules.
 
Mobertermy said:
BCR,

My problem is that I haven't seen any witnesses that support the official path. None. I can't stand CITers so I have no reason to want to discount any SoC paths. They just don't exist in my opinion. Someone like Wheelhouse is the closest I've come to this.
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You've been shown a list of witnesses, in this very thread IIRC, but you rationalized them away like you do the physical evidence. I could be wrong though.
 
Mobertermy said:
20 - 35
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ROTFLOL......remember they have to repair the NoC poles, knock down the Soc poles, move the cab, repair the building damage to three rings that runs at the NoC angle, resurrect all the people killed when the plan went NoC that would have been affected when it was supposed to go SoC, persuade all the people who saw colleges killed that it never really happened.....pick up all the planes parts and body bits etc and carry them over to the SoC route (leaving no trace)
all in about 10 minutes when the building is on fire........

Moving the plane parts and bodies alone would takes hundreds of people and some heavy equipment.

And remember this is all unplanned so no one is prepared for doing ANY of this!
25 -30 is just ludicrous.
 
Mobertermy said:
BCR,

My problem is that I haven't seen any witnesses that support the official path. None. I can't stand CITers so I have no reason to want to discount any SoC paths. They just don't exist in my opinion. Someone like Wheelhouse is the closest I've come to this.
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Mr Morin and Ms Zakhem are undeniably SOC witnesses.
 
sheeplesnshills said:
ROTFLOL......remember they have to repair the NoC poles, knock down the Soc poles, move the cab, repair the building damage to three rings that runs at the NoC angle, resurrect all the people killed when the plan went NoC that would have been affected when it was supposed to go SoC, persuade all the people who saw colleges killed that it never really happened.....pick up all the planes parts and body bits etc and carry them over to the SoC route (leaving no trace)
all in about 10 minutes when the building is on fire........

Moving the plane parts and bodies alone would takes hundreds of people and some heavy equipment.

And remember this is all unplanned so no one is prepared for doing ANY of this!
25 -30 is just ludicrous.
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No "body bits", he claims the plane was "switched out".

(Yes that adds even more people)
 
Mobertermy said:
BCR,

My problem is that I haven't seen any witnesses that support the official path. None. I can't stand CITers so I have no reason to want to discount any SoC paths. They just don't exist in my opinion. Someone like Wheelhouse is the closest I've come to this.
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Then you have not been looking or you are incapable of understanding what they are saying. I'm not going to debate the eyewitness set with you. If you were really interested, you would have read the material I have already put up for you. Won't waste my time doing any more of your 'research' for you.

By the way, I am really starting to believe you are related to Craig Ranke. You sound just like him.
 
BCR said:
Then you have not been looking or you are incapable of understanding what they are saying. I'm not going to debate the eyewitness set with you. If you were really interested, you would have read the material I have already put up for you. Won't waste my time doing any more of your 'research' for you.
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I'm not asking you to John.

By the way, I am really starting to believe you are related to Craig Ranke. You sound just like him.
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Wow, now that is insulting.
 
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