Mind over Matter

[timf1234]

Can awareness, consciousness, thought effect matter?
1) matter inside your body
2) matter outside your body

or only matter can effect matter regarless of inside our outside your body.

 

[godless dave]

Thoughts involve the matter of our brains, so you can't really have a thought without affecting matter. And of course voluntary muscle movements are directed by our thoughts, at least some of the time.

Outside the body, no, not directly.

 

[timf1234]

Thoughts involve the matter of our brains, so you can't really have a thought without affecting matter. And of course voluntary muscle movements are directed by our thoughts, at least some of the time.

Outside the body, no, not directly.

Well, it is true that thought can't be generated without matter but that doesn't necessarily have to mean thought affects matter. It could be a one way street. It could be that awareness/consciousness is just a passive awareness and ONLY matter is affecting matter, that in turn making my hand move or make the decission to take a cup of cofee but not a cup of tea. My passive awareness might not have any influence on any matter but we get the illusion of having Free Will to do anything.

In addition, if thought could effect matter inside my body then why can't it effect outside the body as well? May be thought can't effect any mattter inside or outside the body.

 

[Reality Check]

Awareness, consciousness, thought can never affect matter anywhere.
In order for something to affect matter it has to exert a force. Awareness, consciousness, thought do not exert forces.

 

[porch]

Well, it is true that thought can't be generated without matter but that doesn't necessarily have to mean thought affects matter. It could be a one way street. It could be that awareness/consciousness is just a passive awareness and ONLY matter is affecting matter, that in turn making my hand move or make the decission to take a cup of cofee but not a cup of tea. My passive awareness might not have any influence on any matter but we get the illusion of having Free Will to do anything.

In addition, if thought could effect matter inside my body then why can't it effect outside the body as well? May be thought can't effect any mattter inside or outside the body.

Information processing requires material and can occur without awareness. Awareness itself, when it occurs, requires further material processes.

 

[timf1234]

Information processing requires material and can occur without awareness. Awareness itself, when it occurs, requires further material processes.

I agree with your first sentence above.
Second sentence is not very clear to me. "Requires further material processes" confused me.
I understand that the awareness is the result of material process.

However, there is a mystry or super natural like thing is happening that I can't grasp. How does unconscious matter producing awareness in my mind?
Where does that awareness or consciousness come from?
Ghost in the machine?

I don't understand.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The brain (mind) has been demonstrated to have a significant impact on illness. It is not magical, easily controlled or able to override all real afflictions.

But other than that, there is no evidence for mind over matter even if you could conceive of some far fetched mechanism by which it might occur.

 

[Brian-M]

Can awareness, consciousness, thought effect matter?
1) matter inside your body
2) matter outside your body

or only matter can effect matter regarless of inside our outside your body.

Awareness, consciousness and thought can affect matter to the exact same degree that the functioning of a computer program can. Matter inside the computer (or your brain) is affected by it's functioning (and vice-versa). Matter outside can be affected indirectly, by mechanical devices connected up to the computer, such as a printer (or in humans, arms and legs).

However, there is a mystry or super natural like thing is happening that I can't grasp. How does unconscious matter producing awareness in my mind?
Where does that awareness or consciousness come from?
Ghost in the machine?

Unconscious matter does not produce awareness in your mind. It creates an environment for your mind to exist. To use a very loose analogy, your mind is a bit like a software program hardwired into an integrated circuit (like a computer chip). The chip and the program are two separate things, the chip being the material (like your brain) and the program being the informational/procedural (like your mind). The two are physically inseparable (unless you can somehow make a copy of the program/mind), but distinctly different "things".

Your mind produces awareness, not the unconscious matter of your brain.

 

[lionking]

timf1234, what do you think?

 

[Illustronic]

All I know is some people can make themselves clinically ill with their screwed up vision of reality, and their purpose of affecting/manipulating it.

There is a clinical name for that, which escapes me.

I need to seriously read a paper or two on that syndrome.

 

[Illustronic]

Awareness, consciousness and thought can affect matter to the exact same degree that the functioning of a computer program can. Matter inside the computer (or your brain) is affected by it's functioning (and vice-versa). Matter outside can be affected indirectly, by mechanical devices connected up to the computer, such as a printer (or in humans, arms and legs).



Unconscious matter does not produce awareness in your mind. It creates an environment for your mind to exist. To use a very loose analogy, your mind is a bit like a software program hardwired into an integrated circuit (like a computer chip). The chip and the program are two separate things, the chip being the material (like your brain) and the program being the informational/procedural (like your mind). The two are physically inseparable (unless you can somehow make a copy of the program/mind), but distinctly different "things".

Your mind produces awareness, not the unconscious matter of your brain.

That sounds like a very dreary grasp of conscience. Maybe you should get out more.

 

[Steve001]

Can awareness, consciousness, thought effect matter?
1) matter inside your body
2) matter outside your body

or only matter can effect matter regarless of inside our outside your body.

1. Yes, if you are considering psychosomatic illnesses. If however, you mean can the mind affect matter in the same way as question 2 I think not.

2. That would constitute changing reality in accordance with ones will like a Harry Potter. I feel many persons believe one can I think not.

Yes, matter can affect matter inside or outside your body, but not just matter other forces can also affect matter.

 

[Dancing David]

Um, what is consciousness, it is a label applied to the behavior of material, which is really energy.

This thread smacks of dualism, there is no 'thought' outside of neurons, there is no neuron outside of unconscious matter. That is a specific behavior in unconscious matter.

Define consciousness.

Psst: it is unknown if elementary particles are conscious or not, they do not meet most defintions of consciousness.

 

[Dancing David]

My thoughts can change my breathing and heart rate.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

****. All of that prahna-bindu training for nothing.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

In addition, if thought could effect matter inside my body then why can't it effect outside the body as well? May be thought can't effect any mattter inside or outside the body.

Connections. A thing cannot affect another thing unless it has a connection. A person’s brain is connected physically to the other parts of a person’s body. Therefore, it is plausible, and in many cases proven, that the physical brain affects other part of the physical body to which it is connected.

The brain does not, and cannot, directly affect physical bodies or matter to which it is not connected. To prove that thought can affect matter outside the body, you must not only demonstrate it, but also establish the connection between the thought and the affected matter.

Excluding this proof, saying that, “maybe thought can affect matter outside the body” is as valid as saying “maybe invisible pink unicorns riding on a flying spaghetti monster intelligently designed ananas comosus-housed, rectilinear-trousered, Robert-Porifera concentric to an inner-body archetypical consciousness of experiential Saturnalia exposure rewards of Platonic gratitude.”

I love Spongebob as much as anyone, but in the right way.

Connect the dots, or you got nothing.

 

[timf1234]

timf1234, what do you think?

I do not think thought, awareness, consciousness, XYZ, whatever you want to call it, can’t affect any matter whatsoever, either inside our body or outside.

But only mystery left is where the awareness comes from.

 

[timf1234]

Awareness, consciousness, thought can never affect matter anywhere.
In order for something to affect matter it has to exert a force. Awareness, consciousness, thought do not exert forces.

I think you hit the nail on the head.
You used exact wording needed here "force".
Yap. Now I am better equiped to argue with theist.

However, I still have one missing link.
How does unconscious/unaware matter creates awareness?
This doesn't happen in the computer.
Same question can be asked about "feeling", "taste", "sensation". Where do they come from?
That seems supernatural.

 

[timf1234]

My thoughts can change my breathing and heart rate.

No.
Your thought that attempt to slow down your heart rate is only the afteraffect of matter already in motion in you body and brain. These matter slows down your heart. This gives you an illusion that your thought slowed down your heart rate.

 

[timf1234]

Connections. A thing cannot affect another thing unless it has a connection. A person’s brain is connected physically to the other parts of a person’s body. Therefore, it is plausible, and in many cases proven, that the physical brain affects other part of the physical body to which it is connected.

The brain does not, and cannot, directly affect physical bodies or matter to which it is not connected. To prove that thought can affect matter outside the body, you must not only demonstrate it, but also establish the connection between the thought and the affected matter.

Excluding this proof, saying that, “maybe thought can affect matter outside the body” is as valid as saying “maybe invisible pink unicorns riding on a flying spaghetti monster intelligently designed ananas comosus-housed, rectilinear-trousered, Robert-Porifera concentric to an inner-body archetypical consciousness of experiential Saturnalia exposure rewards of Platonic gratitude.”

I love Spongebob as much as anyone, but in the right way.

Connect the dots, or you got nothing.

We are not talking about brain. Brain is matter. Matter definitely affects matter. We are talking about thoughts, awareness, consciousness, XYZ, whatever you want to call it. Can mind affect matter? Basically, do we have free will?