Militia question 1

[Jocko]

North Carolina is about half that distance from Denmark, Goober. Why don't you buy a world map or something that will teach you just how big this globe is.

........you do realize that the world is round, don't you?

You're right, that completely changes the dynamic of your pissing yourself with fear the first time someone mentions bringing a gun into the city limits of Las Vegas. What WAS I thinking?

I have probably more cojones (look up cajones, Goober) than you could ever imagine. Even in your wildest wet dreams.

"More" cajones? I have only two, but I think that puts me up on you by two. You'll have to check your wife's purse to be sure, because you obviously haven't gotten permission to take them to Vegas with you. Hence the point above.

Open a thread. You bring the moonshahne.

Evade, evade, evade. Can't stay in that mental bunker forever, you know.

There's truly something rotten in the state of Denmark - and you were born through it.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Rights don't have to come from anywhere, they are ours by default. There are certain actions that we choose to let the government or society forbid, from big things like murder to little things like letting people's dogs poop on the sidewalk, in exchange for the benefits of living in an orderly society. Whatever is left over is called our 'rights'. In this sense, rights can be taken away but never granted (unless they were taken away in the first place). No God (or any other agency) is required.

 

[CFLarsen]

Exactly. We achieved them as we developed the ability to make our own decisions based on an evaluation of the consequences of our actions.

Very well. Please point to the empirical evidence in nature that will endow you your rights.

 

[CFLarsen]

And we prefer to rely on the freedom of a republic rather than the tryanny of a democracy.

So, you do not believe that people are capable of deciding for themselves what is good for them? Despite your grandiose claims that people do not need government, they still need you to tell them what they need?

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Tony]

So, you do not believe that people are capable of deciding for themselves what is good for them?

That's not what democracy is.

 

[shanek]

So, you do not believe that people are capable of deciding for themselves what is good for them?

I believe that. You don't. You keep wanting oppressive governments that stop people from exercising their basic rights. It doesn't matter than you have a majority agreeing with you; 259,999,999 people cannot trample on the rights of the remaining 1.

 

[Larspeart]

Excellent point.

Claus won't understand that though. Poor bastard.

 

[Jocko]

So, you do not believe that people are capable of deciding for themselves what is good for them? Despite your grandiose claims that people do not need government, they still need you to tell them what they need?

Almost like he was... a monarch?

 

[Ed]

If somebody is to boast about saving Europe twice is the former English Empire and nobody else but this is a discussion for another thread

Save? Maybe. After all we took everyone with guts or aggression or with desparation or with a sense of dignity that the existing structures offended or the poor; basically everone who could cause the most trouble over there. Yeah, we saved you.

 

[Jocko]

I believe that. You don't. You keep wanting oppressive governments that stop people from exercising their basic rights. It doesn't matter than you have a majority agreeing with you; 259,999,999 people cannot trample on the rights of the remaining 1.

Apparently in Claus's system, you CAN do that. Because rights are given, they can be taken. And because of his claims of pure democracy, you have the tyranny of the majority as a constant... well, it's not a threat to him because that's how his value system goes. It's just the way of things there. Great, enjoy, God bless.

Which is why I'm glad I'm here. Plus I don't have to dodge the obvious questions of how I reconcile claims of a pure democracy and a reasonably robust monarchy at the same time.

 

[crimresearch]

Save? Maybe. After all we took everyone with guts or aggression or with desparation or with a sense of dignity that the existing structures offended or the poor; basically everone who could cause the most trouble over there. Yeah, we saved you.

Oh dear...I feared that this thread was going to devolve into a Euro bashing 'rejects from the Brain Drain' direction...

Please don't accomodate Claus' ramblings and refusal to deal in facts or reality by addressing his jingoistic red herrings.

 

[Larspeart]

hey, isn't that what the Hitler fella did to the Jews?

the majority had no problem seeing their neighbors shipped off to die,so it was okay.

Hey! A perfect democracy!

I like Shane's idea better.

 

[Luke T.]

I believe that. You don't. You keep wanting oppressive governments that stop people from exercising their basic rights. It doesn't matter than you have a majority agreeing with you; 259,999,999 people cannot trample on the rights of the remaining 1.

One man's oppressive government is another man's benevolent protector.

If I enter into a social contract with a protector, I am making myself half-slave, half-free.

We are all submissive to a protector of one kind or another. To live in a total state of nature would be disastrous. The human race would not survive.

The terms in which I enter into a social contract make all the difference. I can enter the contract with the understanding that I reserve all rights for myself and set down which ones I surrender and which ones I will not, or I can enter the contract by surrendering all my rights to my protector and accepting the ones which are returned to me.

 

[CFLarsen]

I believe that. You don't. You keep wanting oppressive governments that stop people from exercising their basic rights.

But democracy means that you respect the decision of the majority, even if it contradicts your own opinion.

Clearly, you do not respect the decision of the majority.

It doesn't matter than you have a majority agreeing with you; 259,999,999 people cannot trample on the rights of the remaining 1.

Rights that are endowed you by a god.

 

[shanek]

Save? Maybe. After all we took everyone with guts or aggression or with desparation or with a sense of dignity that the existing structures offended or the poor; basically everone who could cause the most trouble over there. Yeah, we saved you.

I have to quote this again...

"Europe is nothing more than a third world country with a bad attitude. Europeans are nothing more than the descendants of peasants who didn't have the courage to overthrow the tyrants that run their little duchies or the ambition to emigrate to the United States...They're so proud now that they've got their new common currency, known as the 'Euro.' This will replace their previous common currency, known as the 'Dollar.' Come on! The #1 TV show over there is 'Baywatch!' Europe is a place where people eat the parts of animals we Americans use for dog food and fertilizer, and wash it down with a couple gallons of alcohol and a carton of cigarettes praying that the combination of lung cancer and socialized medicine might mercifully shorten their miserable little lives. Thank you, and once I'm elected as President..." —Tim Slagle

 

[Ed]

Oh dear...I feared that this thread was going to devolve into a Euro bashing 'rejects from the Brain Drain' direction...

Please don't accomodate Claus' ramblings and refusal to deal in facts or reality by addressing his jingoistic red herrings.

Oh, I'm just funnin' ya I can smell baiting a mile off, I practically invented "baiting". In fact, I actually did invent it. It was some time ago. I said "Socrates, old man are you a faggot or what? Afraid to take an itsy bitsey drink? (chicken sounds)".

It does make one wonder what would have happened if there were no "New World" and those malcontents remained, though.

 

[shanek]

But democracy means that you respect the decision of the majority, even if it contradicts your own opinion.

Clearly, you do not respect the decision of the majority.

Freedom, on the other hand, means that you respect the decision of the individual, even if it contradicts what the majority thinks.

Clearly, you do not respect the decision of individuals. I don't respect the decision of the majority, especially when they're telling me how to run my life!

 

[Ed]

But democracy means that you respect the decision of the majority, even if it contradicts your own opinion.

Clearly, you do not respect the decision of the majority.

This is precisely why we let Nazi's and other loonies speak even though a majority would like to remove their right of free speech. This is exactly the point. Free speech transcends human law.

 

[CFLarsen]

I have to quote this again...

"Europe is nothing more than a third world country with a bad attitude. Europeans are nothing more than the descendants of peasants who didn't have the courage to overthrow the tyrants that run their little duchies or the ambition to emigrate to the United States...They're so proud now that they've got their new common currency, known as the 'Euro.' This will replace their previous common currency, known as the 'Dollar.' Come on! The #1 TV show over there is 'Baywatch!' Europe is a place where people eat the parts of animals we Americans use for dog food and fertilizer, and wash it down with a couple gallons of alcohol and a carton of cigarettes praying that the combination of lung cancer and socialized medicine might mercifully shorten their miserable little lives. Thank you, and once I'm elected as President..." —Tim Slagle

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Ed]

BTW he said "Yeah? What of it?" and took a swig.