Micro Spheres in world trade center dust solved.

Chainsaw:

Only time will tell if Dr. Jones will share any more information with us....

By the way, here is another thought on this topic:

There are probably many minor, or trace, elements to look for in the WTC microspheres whose concentrations relative to a major element like Fe or Al could provide key forensic evidence as to the contribution of a particular source, ( e.g. paint, ash, electronics, welding fume, thermite, etc), to the total mass of microspheres.

However, energy dispersive X-ray analysis is not sensitive enough to detect and quantify with sufficient precision many of the elements I am thinking of. Thus I would use other analytical techniques (e.g., AA, ICP, NAA, etc), to get some concentrations for some key minor (i.e. less than say 1 %) elements.

Thus I would look for Ti, V, Cr, Mn, Ni, Cu, Zn, Sb and Mo in the microspheres and compare the values with the concentration to Fe. This could potentially tell you where the Fe is coming from, (e.g. structural steel, galvanized steel, welding electrodes, etc). Also I would analyse for Ag and compare it to Al. Why this one? Well did you know that the aluminum alloy facade on the Twin Towers was actually an Al-Ag alloy specially developed for this purpose by Alcoa. No Ag in microspheres containing Al means the Al is not coming from the Al facade....
 
Apollo20 said:
Chainsaw:

Only time will tell if Dr. Jones will share any more information with us....

By the way, here is another thought on this topic:

There are probably many minor, or trace, elements to look for in the WTC microspheres whose concentrations relative to a major element like Fe or Al could provide key forensic evidence as to the contribution of a particular source, ( e.g. paint, ash, electronics, welding fume, thermite, etc), to the total mass of microspheres.

However, energy dispersive X-ray analysis is not sensitive enough to detect and quantify with sufficient precision many of the elements I am thinking of. Thus I would use other analytical techniques (e.g., AA, ICP, NAA, etc), to get some concentrations for some key minor (i.e. less than say 1 %) elements.

Thus I would look for Ti, V, Cr, Mn, Ni, Cu, Zn, Sb and Mo in the microspheres and compare the values with the concentration to Fe. This could potentially tell you where the Fe is coming from, (e.g. structural steel, galvanized steel, welding electrodes, etc). Also I would analyse for Ag and compare it to Al. Why this one? Well did you know that the aluminum alloy facade on the Twin Towers was actually an Al-Ag alloy specially developed for this purpose by Alcoa. No Ag in microspheres containing Al means the Al is not coming from the Al facade....
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I agree, Dr. Jones needs a lot more tests than just finding Si, I made my own custom blend of thermite, out of oxidized Fe 304 from steel cuttings the steel had less than 3 percent Si so the thermite had less than 3 percent Si.

Micro-spheres are common, and commonly produced in known chemical reactions, if evidence of thermite was in the buildings then Dr. Jones is clueless as to what the evidence would be.

A lot more test on the micro spheres would have to be done before blanket statements like evidence of thermite could even be taken as plausible.

Anyone can do flawed experiments few can do actual science that produces actual results.
 
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Apollo20 said:
Chainsaw:

Only time will tell if Dr. Jones will share any more information with us....

By the way, here is another thought on this topic:

There are probably many minor, or trace, elements to look for in the WTC microspheres whose concentrations relative to a major element like Fe or Al could provide key forensic evidence as to the contribution of a particular source, ( e.g. paint, ash, electronics, welding fume, thermite, etc), to the total mass of microspheres.

However, energy dispersive X-ray analysis is not sensitive enough to detect and quantify with sufficient precision many of the elements I am thinking of. Thus I would use other analytical techniques (e.g., AA, ICP, NAA, etc), to get some concentrations for some key minor (i.e. less than say 1 %) elements.

Thus I would look for Ti, V, Cr, Mn, Ni, Cu, Zn, Sb and Mo in the microspheres and compare the values with the concentration to Fe. This could potentially tell you where the Fe is coming from, (e.g. structural steel, galvanized steel, welding electrodes, etc). Also I would analyse for Ag and compare it to Al. Why this one? Well did you know that the aluminum alloy facade on the Twin Towers was actually an Al-Ag alloy specially developed for this purpose by Alcoa. No Ag in microspheres containing Al means the Al is not coming from the Al facade....
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There was silver in the cladding? (You are a fount.)

Do you have any idea what karat was the facade?
 
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Max:

I have been unable to find information on the amount of silver in the aluminum facade. I would hazard a guess it was 0.5 - 5 %. Apparently Alcoa supplied 2.2 million sq ft. of the stuff! It was a specially developed Al-Ag alloy designed to increase the reflectivity and give it that extra shiny look we all know and love!
 
Our Max, always looking for the silver lining...

Apollo20 said:
Max:

I have been unable to find information on the amount of silver in the aluminum facade. I would hazard a guess it was 0.5 - 5 %. Apparently Alcoa supplied 2.2 million sq ft. of the stuff! It was a specially developed Al-Ag alloy designed to increase the reflectivity and give it that extra shiny look we all know and love!
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Fascinating!

Until just yesterday, silver was the primary money used in the world. Even the US dollar - the real dollar - you know, 371.25 grains of fine silver - was designed to mirror the Spanish Piece of Eight.

Advances in extracting gold from ore has caused a fundamental market switch from silver to gold, moving silver to a secondary monetary role. (Actually, a better way to think of gold and silver is as serving as money at polar ends of the human scale - gold for nations buying continents - silver for the cobbler saving that day's profit - a lovely silver dime.)

Silver is indeed still money in the true, multi-layered definition of money, and silver supports a system of silver-backed credit, but it now also gets pulled by submarginal uses or attractors - such as covering the financial centers with - well - money.

That the towers were clad in silver is direct evidence of the gradual, spontaneous market demonetization of silver in favor of gold!


So now I'd love to figure out how much silver was in the towers' facade. Do you or does anyone know the thickness of the cladding?


Max
 
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Apollo20 said:
Max:

I have been unable to find information on the amount of silver in the aluminum facade. I would hazard a guess it was 0.5 - 5 %. Apparently Alcoa supplied 2.2 million sq ft. of the stuff! It was a specially developed Al-Ag alloy designed to increase the reflectivity and give it that extra shiny look we all know and love!
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Alcoa still uses the alloy, it is about .3 percent silver, I
believe.

Apollo20,

Here are some crude photos that show what I have been experiencing in experiment on the live decking.

Livedecking.JPG


Passage for electrical wires over trusses.

livedeckinga.JPG


Damage from air craft impact floors only.

livedeckingb.jpg


Buildup of carbon and explosive gasses with water vapor and HCl.

livedeckingc.jpg


Ignition of explosive gasses, and carbons along with HCl and water vapor.

livedeckingd.jpg


Ignition of metal floor pans Spalding of concrete, white flame, and increased air to fires above area of electrical conduit increasing fire temperature.

These are not actual drawings just rough concept drawings to show the mechanisms I have been working with, covering the bottom of the live conduits only increases the force of the explosions that occur in them.
Insulating the live conduits is impossible without insulating the entire floor pans.
This was a very bad idea in the design of the buildings.
I have just had so many questions on this I thought I would explain it visually what I have been witnessing.

OK the people at JERF can now call me nuts, oh and this does produce molten Iron Fe3O4 and molten iron chloride.
 
Max:

The aluminum panels were 12 feet long, 18 inches wide and 0.09 inches thick and weighed about 100 lbs.

(How about those nice engineering units... Oh and the steel perimiter columns protected by the aluminum were apparently limited to a minimum of 50 Fahrenheit. Yes! Deg F! Only American engineers are stuck in a world of 19th century units.......... slugs indeed!)

Chainsaw:

Wow, nice illustrations, that is amazing!

This is why NIST needs to repeat its workstation combustion tests with all the key ingredients SUCH AS PVC INSULATED WIRING included in the flooring. And let's not forget the plenum wiring below each floor ....and the vinyl tiles above .......
 
Apollo20 said:
Max:

The aluminum panels were 12 feet long, 18 inches wide and 0.09 inches thick and weighed about 100 lbs.

(How about those nice engineering units... Oh and the steel perimiter columns protected by the aluminum were apparently limited to a minimum of 50 Fahrenheit. Yes! Deg F! Only American engineers are stuck in a world of 19th century units.......... slugs indeed!)

Chainsaw:

Wow, nice illustrations, that is amazing!

This is why NIST needs to repeat its workstation combustion tests with all the key ingredients SUCH AS PVC INSULATED WIRING included in the flooring. And let's not forget the plenum wiring below each floor ....and the vinyl tiles above .......
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I know, I just wish you could see it for yourself, I really want to video tape it sometime, however it is very dangerous, I have tried all possible shapes, round triangular, and square and different sizes.

Two inches is the smallest I think would work for the conduits, and regardless of shape I get the same reaction.
Carbon monoxide seems to be the main ignition and explosive gas with complicated reactions recurring after ignition I found a peace of concrete from the floor slab, 1 foot by 2 feet, after the explosion about 75 feet away it was easy to spot as it went directly past my head.

Ironically my first email to Dr. Jones was about a smoke explosion I had witnessed, I just did not realize at the time that carbon monoxide was that powerful.
 
Apollo, has Dr. Jones sent you the spectra analysis yet? Or is he refusing to do so.
 
Silver, the WTCs, and Max Photon going to hell

Apollo20,

2.2 million square feet of cladding x 0.09" thick = 16,500 cubic feet of Al/Ag alloy.

CC provided 0.3% Ag, giving us about 50 cubic feet of silver.

There are 9549 troy ounces of silver in a cubic foot, giving us...

472,676 troy ounces of silver in the Al cladding of WTCs 1 & 2.

(...which is 472,676 troy ounces of silver more than is backing the entire pyramid of roughly $1 trillion Federal Reserve Notes, and $516 trillion in derivatives balanced on top of the FRNs.)


5000 oz silver = 1 standard COMEX contract of 5 good-for-delivery 1000oz bars

So the towers required 95 COMEX silver contracts.


By the way, since 1 dollar (not 1 Federal Reserve Note) equals - by definition - about 0.77 ounces - the amount of silver used in the towers was about 614,000 dollars.


Or - for you Bible buffs - the market rate of Christ was 30 shekels of silver, or 11 troy ounces.

So the WTC facades were worth about 43,000 Saviors.


Jesus.
 
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Crazy Chainsaw said:
I know, I just wish you could see it for yourself, I really want to video tape it sometime, however it is very dangerous, I have tried all possible shapes, round triangular, and square and different sizes.

Two inches is the smallest I think would work for the conduits, and regardless of shape I get the same reaction.
Carbon monoxide seems to be the main ignition and explosive gas with complicated reactions recurring after ignition I found a peace of concrete from the floor slab, 1 foot by 2 feet, after the explosion about 75 feet away it was easy to spot as it went directly past my head.

Ironically my first email to Dr. Jones was about a smoke explosion I had witnessed, I just did not realize at the time that carbon monoxide was that powerful.
Click to expand...
Chainsaw:
Are you saying that the electrical conduits that are supposed to be safeguarding against fires are in-fact acting like a pressure cooker of sorts? Am I following you correctly?
 
DGM said:
Chainsaw:
Are you saying that the electrical conduits that are supposed to be safeguarding against fires are in-fact acting like a pressure cooker of sorts? Am I following you correctly?
Click to expand...

They act as a trap for explosive and corrosive gasses to build up and well explode.
Because the concrete is weak above them this allows for an air stream to be pulled up though fissured created in the explosion igniting the floor pans at about 3000c.

The floor pans only burn a small amount, however that increase the availiable air to the carbons on the floor above though a fire grate chimney like effect.

Here is a little history on privous fires in the trade centers remember the air conditioning system was not working on september 11/2001 no purging could be accomplish of the smoke and gasses as had happened in 1975.
With out purging the gasses tend to build up in the buildings.

This 110-story steel-framed office building suffered a fire on the 11th floor on February 13, 1975. The loss was estimated at over $2,000,000. The building is one of a pair of towers, 412 m in height. The fire started at approximately 11:45 P.M. in a furnished office on the 11th floor and spread through the corridors toward the main open office area.
A porter saw flames under the door and sounded the alarm. It was later that the smoke detector in the air-conditioning plenum on the 11th floor was activated. The delay was probably because the air-conditioning system was turned off at night. The building engineers placed the ventilation system in the purge mode, to blow fresh air into the core area and to draw air from all the offices on the 11th floor so as to prevent further smoke spread.

The fire department on arrival found a very intense fire. It was not immediately known that the fire was spreading vertically from floor to floor through openings in the floor slab. These 300-mm x 450-mm (12-in. x 18-in.) openings in the slab provided access for telephone cables. Subsidiary fires on the 9th to the 19th floors were discovered and readily extinguished. The only occupants of the building at the time of fire were cleaning and service personnel. They were evacuated without any fatalities. However, there were 125 firemen involved in fighting this fire and 28 sustained injuries from the intense heat and smoke. The cause of the fire is unknown.


Also, from the New York Times (Saturday 15th February 1975):

Fire Commissioner John T. O'Hagan said yesterday that he would make a vigorous effort to have a sprinkler system installed in the World Trade Center towers as a consequence of the fire that burned for three hours in one of them early yesterday morning.
The towers, each 110 stories tall and the highest structures in the city, are owned and operated by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is not subject to local safety codes.
As Commissioner O'Hagan stood in the sooty puddles of the North Tower's 11th floor hallway, he told reporters that the fire would not have spread as far as it did if sprinklers had been installed there.

The fire spread throughout about half of the offices of the floor and ignited the insulation of telephone cables in a cable shaft that runs vertically between floors. Commissioner O'Hagan said that the absence of fire-stopper material in gaps around the telephone cables had allowed the blaze to spread to other floors within the cable shaft. Inside the shaft, it spread down to the 9th floor and up to the 16th floor, but the blaze did not escape from the shaft out into room or hallways on the other floors.........

Only the 11th floor office area was burned, but extensive water damage occurred on the 9th and 10th floors, and smoke damage extended as far as the 15th floor, the spokesman said.
Although there were no direct casualties, 28 of the 150 firemen called to the scene suffered minor injuries.


More from the New York Times (Saturday 14th February 1975):

"It was like fighting a blow torch" according to Captain Harold Kull of Engine Co. 6,........
Flames could be seen pouring out of 11th floor windows on the east side of the building.


So, this was a very serious fire which spread over some 65 per cent of the eleventh floor (the core plus half the office area) in the very same building that supposedly "collapsed" on 9/11 due to a similar, or lesser, fire. This fire also spread to a number of other floors. And although it lasted over 3 hours, it caused no serious structural damage and trusses survived the fires without replacement and supported the building for many, many more years after the fires were put out.

It should be emphasized that the North Tower suffered no serious structural damage from this fire. In particular, no trusses needed to be replaced.

That the 1975 fire was more intense than the 9/11 fires is evident from the fact that it caused the 11th floor east side windows to break and flames could be seen pouring from these broken windows. This indicates a temperature greater than 700°C. In the 9/11 fires the windows were not broken by the heat (only by the aircraft impact) indicating a temperature below 700°C.

So now you know that the WTC towers were well designed and quite capable of surviving a serious fire. I repeat that this was a very hot fire that burnt through the open-plan office area of the eleventh floor and spread up and down the central core area for many floors. This was a serious fire.

Much was learned from the 1975 WTC fire. In particular, the fact that the fire had not been contained to a single floor but spread to many floors, caused much concern. The points of entry of the fire to other floors were identified and the floors of each building were modified to make sure that this would never happen again. For some strange reason, the modifications failed to perform on September 11, 2001 and again the fires spread from floor to floor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See also:

1975 New York Times Newspaper Clippings
The 9/11 WTC Fires: Where's the Inferno?
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This is also what I suspect might have happened in building 7 causing damage to the underlying beam structure.
 
Lapman:

Dr. Jones has sent me some EDS spectra of WTC dust but I have agreed not to discuss them on a public forum such as this so I will keep my word...

Max:

Well you might be on to something: there were 43,000 aluminum "curtain-wall" panels and 43,000 bronzed-glass windows. (Source: Engineering News Record, Nov 1970)

Chainsaw:

I just obtained a copy of a paper entitled "Pyrolysis Study of PVC-Metal Oxide Mixtures" by Y. Masuda et al. (See J. Anal. Appl. Pyrolysis: Vol 77, 159, (2006). On page 161 we read: "As for the gaseous products, considerable amounts of CO were emitted by the reaction of PVC-Fe2O3 mixtures" (The reaction was carried out at 800 Deg C and metallic iron was found in the pyrolysis residue).
 
Well the presenting of CERTAIN SPECTRA to you, Dr. Greening, is certainly ONE SMALL positive step, but far from what I would call open and honest science.

I have stated before what should occur.

TAM:)
 
Apollo20 said:
Lapman:

Dr. Jones has sent me some EDS spectra of WTC dust but I have agreed not to discuss them on a public forum such as this so I will keep my word...

Max:

Well you might be on to something: there were 43,000 aluminum "curtain-wall" panels and 43,000 bronzed-glass windows. (Source: Engineering News Record, Nov 1970)

Chainsaw:

I just obtained a copy of a paper entitled "Pyrolysis Study of PVC-Metal Oxide Mixtures" by Y. Masuda et al. (See J. Anal. Appl. Pyrolysis: Vol 77, 159, (2006). On page 161 we read: "As for the gaseous products, considerable amounts of CO were emitted by the reaction of PVC-Fe2O3 mixtures" (The reaction was carried out at 800 Deg C and metallic iron was found in the pyrolysis residue).
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I have been witnessing, in experiments the fires heat would have been hottest around the ceiling where the heat and hot gasses would have collected.

I have even seen trusses momentarily ignite.
 
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