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Michael Moore in trouble?

Pardalis said:
Again, of all the people in need of health care, 9/11 is the easiest, lamest political tool to use.
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Ok, it's easy(i.e. effective) to draw attention to vets because almost everyone agrees that what's going on is a disgrace.

Sowhy is it lame to push for reform in that area?
 
Jekyll said:
Ok, it's easy(i.e. effective) to draw attention to vets because almost everyone agrees that what's going on is a disgrace.

Sowhy is it lame to push for reform in that area?
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It's not.

I don't have a problem with Bush pointing to 9/11 victims and saying "this was a horrendous tragedy, we must not let this happen again" and then take action to go after Al Qaeda and Bin Laden and beef up national security. One could call that "using 9/11 victims to promote a political agenda," which it is in a way, but it's a worthy one. Good, worthwhile political agendas do exist. I believe that Moore thinks 9/11 survivors (like all Americans) deserve good healthcare. That's a worthy political agenda, in my view.

Using 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq; not worthy, IMHO.
 
It worries me that providing healthcare for forces veterans is even an issue in the US. Universal healthcare is a right, not an option.
 
DanishDynamite said:
Something wrong with breaking a law which is unjust? Seems to me that it is has been done before in the US, to good effect.
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No, I think there is something wrong with creating a propaganda piece promoting Castro and his health care system.
 
And yes, I did see "TV Nation" which pretty much started his career...but the big bucks are in attacking the Republicans.
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I think Roger and Me started his career.

There are people making a lot of money attacking Dems too (Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh have done well for themselves). So?

I don't think Moore got into documentary filmmaking to get rich. When he made Roger and Me I don't think he or anyone would have imagined that that kind of project would lead to a lucrative career. But let's say he is just in it for the money (which I find unlikely)--so what? A lot of the criticism of Moore I hear is not specific arguments against the substance of his films, but more along the lines of "he's fat" (mentioned earlier in the thread), "he's making big bucks," "he complains of persecution after breaking the law."

eta: Mycroft, where did Moore complain of being persecuted?
 
Mycroft said:
No, I think there is something wrong with creating a propaganda piece promoting Castro and his health care system.
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That's not Moore's point.

Moore's point is to show how poorly the US health care system takes care of e.g. people hurt by 9-11, and he uses Cuba as the obvious counterpoint.
 
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jimtron said:
What do you believe Moore's agenda to be?
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Apparantly something other than pointing out the flaws in the US health care system as going to Cuba will pretty much destroy any chance he had of being taken seriously in his criticism.
 
Mycroft said:
Apparantly something other than pointing out the flaws in the US health care system as going to Cuba will pretty much destroy any chance he had of being taken seriously in his criticism.
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Not by you, but I'm willing to bet that many people will take his criticism seriously.

What's his agenda--to secretly promote Cuba in the guise of a film about HMOs and the U.S. healthcare industry?
 
jimtron said:
eta: Mycroft, where did Moore complain of being persecuted?
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Well, you're right. The OP has a noticable lack of quotes directly from Michael Moore, but we can still disect it for a few quotes from his close associates:

"given the concerns about efforts by the Bush administration to confiscate or censor the film", said a source close to Moore.

Not said by MM, but by a source close to him. Does MM disagree? Certainly not enough to ask this source to refrain from hyperbole about censorship.

"President Bush and the administration should be spending their time trying to help these heroes get health care instead of abusing the legal pro-cess to advance a political agenda," producer Meghan O'Hara said.

Again it's not MM, but Meghan O'Hara, but she apparantly feels that a strongly worded letter from the Treasury Department is "abusing the legal process". Does MM disagree?

Then moving on to alternative sources for actual quotes from MM such as the response linked by thinkingaboutit in post #60:

I believe that the decision to conduct this investigation represents the latest example of the Bush Administration abusing the federal government for raw, crass, political purposes.

Well, he certainly claims to be of the opinion that his strongly worded letter from the Treasury Department wasn't something sent to everyone who goes to Cuba but that he was singled out personally for political reasons. Does that qualify as persecution? I think so.

There are a number of specific facts that have led me to conclude that politics could very well be driving this Bush Administration investigation of me and my film.

Here he begins to sound like a truther, the feelings of "persecution" get so strong.

I understand why the Bush administration is coming after me --

Because he broke the law? No, read on...

...I have tried to help the very people they refuse to help, but until George W. Bush outlaws helping your fellow man, I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide.

Whew! It's getting piled high in here!

I demand that the Bush Administration immediately end this investigation...

Yeah, blah blah blah... Michael Moore may not be sincere in this persecution rhetoric, but he sure is beating it to death.

Any more questions?
 
jimtron said:
Because it was a dramatic example? I assume he features other people in the film as well, not just 9/11 victims, but I don't know. If he's misrepresenting their situation, that's wrong. But if he had their cooperation, and accurately told their story, I don't see a problem.

Is he exploiting 9/11 victims, or championing their cause?
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I would say he exploits most of the people he gets in his films. Misrepresenting what his movies are about, using stock footage of amputee vetrans that wanted nothing to do with moore or his movies, cutting footage together to make things seem connected when they arent, etc. He is a total jerk.

I decided to see 'micheal moore hates america' to try and get an alternate side to everything. I was expecting neo con propaganda (fox news style), but it was pretty neat, they went and re interviewed people who were featured in moore's movies, and that part was interesting. There are some silly parts where some guests try to explain personal things about moore that are impossible to know *psychological problems and such* but its still worth watching, just so you can see what he did in order to set up all of his interviews, the thing about the free gun in the bank was especially interesting. Oh, and he made up that whole thing about growing up in flint to make roger&me seem personal. :boggled: I hope his movie tanks. Its really dissapointing to see how his movies seem to take off in france, its just feeding into already negetive stereotypes about america/ns, and hes using lies to do it.
 
Ach, if he's annoying the right wing he must be doing something right.

And don't pick on the French. He's very popular in the UK and Germany too. ;)
 
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nails3jesus0 said:
Oh, and he made up that whole thing about growing up in flint to make roger&me seem personal. :boggled:
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Actually, he was born in Flint. He grew up in Davison, which is only 17 miles away. I'm sure many people in Davison also worked at the GM plant, so I think Roger & Me is still a personal film for him.
 
EvilSmurf said:
Actually, he was born in Flint. He grew up in Davison, which is only 17 miles away. I'm sure many people in Davison also worked at the GM plant, so I think Roger & Me is still a personal film for him.
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Then why not just say "I grew up in a suburb of Flint"? Why lie?
 
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