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Michael Brown Shooting

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LTC8K6 said:
Yeah, like I've said a hundred times, mid-fall, going to the ground, and Wilson fires his last two shots.

But that doesn't mean he won't go to jail for the shooting. He will unless there's a blockbuster out there in his favor, imo.
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Is anybody going to be even prosecuted for the police shooting of the disturbed individual I posted earlier? In that there is clear cut evidence of the cops firing at a guy lying on the ground probably in the process of dying already and the police chief is defending the shooting. In the Ferguson case, there is no video, nobody will ever know exactly what happened. You and I might think the last couple of shots to the head were not justified and were probably illegal because any possible threat from Brown at that point is gone, but it looks to me like our view of this will not be the one that the criminal justice system eventually goes with. I live in Fullerton, CA. Cops beat the crap out of a mentally disturbed individual which caused his death. There did not seem to be any possible justification for the beating and while the cops were fired, they were found not guilty. This was white on white crime. If there had been a racial aspect to this story I could easily see the community erupting in violence over the verdict.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You're tap dancing around the problem.



You both need to account for two hits to the top of the head given a 3 second pause where Wilson should have seen Brown was falling or getting down.

Otherwise Brown would have had to fall or be getting down during the last volley and given two of the 4 shots were in a head that was already bent down, that doesn't leave any time for Brown to go from appearing threatening to falling/getting down.

Brown had to fall or be getting down during or before the 3 second pause.
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I don't understand you at all.

I have no problem with the officer pausing to see if his shots have had any effect, then resuming fire just as Brown does begin to fall from the first volley, with the last 4 shots fired as Brown fell.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
They leaked the store video (the county police voiced anger the Ferguson police did that) and the confidential medical report of pot in Brown's system.
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The video wasn't leaked -- it was released by the FPD along with other information in response to various sunshine requests.
 
davefoc said:
Is anybody going to be even prosecuted for the police shooting of the disturbed individual I posted earlier? In that there is clear cut evidence of the cops firing at a guy lying on the ground probably in the process of dying already and the police chief is defending the shooting. In the Ferguson case, there is no video, nobody will ever know exactly what happened. You and I might think the last couple of shots to the head were not justified and were probably illegal because any possible threat from Brown at that point is gone, but it looks to me like our view of this will not be the one that the criminal justice system eventually goes with. I live in Fullerton, CA. Cops beat the crap out of a mentally disturbed individual which caused his death. There did not seem to be any possible justification for the beating and while the cops were fired, they were found not guilty. This was white on white crime. If there had been a racial aspect to this story I could easily see the community erupting in violence over the verdict.
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I don't think the last two shots convict Wilson. I think they were just a continuation of firing. They were not "coup de grâce" shots.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
It has nothing to do with Josie's call.

They leaked the store video (the county police voiced anger the Ferguson police did that) and the confidential medical report of pot in Brown's system.
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Leaking and releasing are not synonyms. I was under the impression that the video was released at a press conference. It was done in an incredibly stupid and insensitive way but was it leaked or was it just released?

If partial information about the toxicology report was leaked that was a bad thing and it supports your view that there might be selective leaking going on. Do you have another example?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Brown isn't falling yet. Thus the pause. Brown falls within the frame of the last volley.

Why doesn't that fit?
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Because that gives Brown only one second to go from appearing to be a threat to Wilson and when his head was in a position to get two entry wounds to the top of the head.

What is this unlikely scenario? No one has suggested one that accounts for appearing threatening and having your head parallel to the ground in a single second.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Because that gives Brown only one second to go from appearing to be a threat to Wilson and when his head was in a position to get two entry wounds to the top of the head.

What is this unlikely scenario? No one has suggested one that accounts for appearing threatening and having your head parallel to the ground in a single second.
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Coming towards me, and finally falling towards me from about five feet could certainly have the appearance of " still coming "
 
Skeptical Greg said:
Why does brown have to be falling before the last four shots are fired, for one of them to hit the top of his head? Particularly the last one..

The hit in the forehead, then the top of the head, is consistent with the shots following an arc coinciding with the target falling forward..


This has been explained several times..
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No they aren't consistent with an "arc". You can explain all you want, I'm going by the autopsy report: Brown's head was bent forward when the final two shots hit him, the last one dropping him instantly onto his face.
 
I watched the video of the other St. Louis county shooting davefoc posted yesterday and noticed something odd. Backup arrives quickly, and they start to tape off the crime scene, but none of the cops are the least interested if there are witnesses to what happened. In fact, some of them have their hands on their weapons as the are ordering people to leave.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
No they aren't consistent with an "arc". You can explain all you want, I'm going by the autopsy report: Brown's head was bent forward when the final two shots hit him, the last one dropping him instantly onto his face.
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Well no, it would not have been instantly.

It would have taken the amount of time based on how far his head was from the ground when the bullet struck, and how fast his head was moving..


The examiners would have no way of knowing whether the head moved to line up with the bullets, or whether the line of fire moved..

They were just guessing - like you....
 
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Kestrel said:
I watched the video of the other St. Louis county shooting davefoc posted yesterday and noticed something odd. Backup arrives quickly, and they start to tape off the crime scene, but none of the cops are the least interested if there are witnesses to what happened. In fact, some of them have their hands on their weapons as the are ordering people to leave.
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As we have seen in this thread, witnesses simply confuse the narrative.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
How much time, exactly, does it take to turn around, taunt, and move toward someone ?

Is it possible for some of those events to be simultaneous ?

I'm quite sure it's not impossible. We know brown turned around. We have a witness saying brown moved toward wilson.
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You must have been listening to a different interview.The witness was saying Brown was Collapsing forward after being shot.
 
Kestrel said:
I watched the video of the other St. Louis county shooting davefoc posted yesterday and noticed something odd. Backup arrives quickly, and they start to tape off the crime scene, but none of the cops are the least interested if there are witnesses to what happened. In fact, some of them have their hands on their weapons as the are ordering people to leave.
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A very good point. I wonder if this would have been different in other police departments. When there has been a deadly shooting, gathering witnesses seems like an important order of business. It seems to be standard procedure on Law and Order with is the basis for most of my understanding of police procedures but I'm not sure how that relates to planet real life.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
These are good questions that need to be addressed.

I believe the claim is that the recording started after shot 1 (or 2 ) ?

The police know how many shots were fired.
The police know if there was a ahot fired in the car or from the car.
The police know if there is powder or powder burns on brown

The police are not trying the case in the media, so we don't know these things yet.

The cynical me says Crump and Parks would have leaked the number of shots fired (a) if he knew and (b) if he thought it helped browns side.
So either they don't know, or it doesn't help.
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Our the police investigators, having already criticised the local police for selectively leaking information detrimental to Brown, are not now going to leak anything else and appear to be hypocrites and possibly further inflame an already volatile situation.
 
BenBurch said:
I am thinking we need one more camera. And this one ought to be on 100% of all guns allowed to police OR civilians; A gun camera. And tampering with it is 30 years, no parole.
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This strikes me as a really good idea. A good idea that almost certainly won't be implemented.

I wonder what the least intrusive gun camera possible with today's technology is. I imagine a small device suspended under the barrel pointing forward. There have been some very low power radio links developed so it might be possible to move storage outside the device and have it communicate with a base station on the gun users person, maybe his smarphone Or perhaps the storage could be contained within the device and new video is constantly saved over older video. Inductive charging is certainly feasible so that the camera battery could be charged where the gun was stored. The device would be in standby most of the time. Turn on might be triggered by a combination of out of the holster, motion detected and barrel near horizontal. The detection of a shot might force turn on if other mechanisms hadn't already triggered a turn on.

I like it Ben.

It could be fun to just propose it and watch the heads of NRA leaders explode over the idea. Notice how enthused they are over the idea of trigger locks that prevent use of the weapon than by other than the owner/authorized user.
 
Mike! said:
Interesting concept. What would activate it, hand on the grip? You might be on to something Ben.
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Or the police could just start wearing lapel cameras universally. I bet Wilson sure wishes he had been wearing one of those now.
 
Newtons Bit said:
Or the police could just start wearing lapel cameras universally. I bet Wilson sure wishes he had been wearing one of those now.
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No argument there. The biggest problem with Ben's idea is overall implementation, at least at the civilian level.
I recommend Ben start a new thread on the subject, I think it merits discussion, but not here.
 
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