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Michael Brown Shooting

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GWCarver said:
Do you know what time the recording was made?
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I see no reason the attorney wouldn't have vetted the time of the recording.

TheL8Elvis said:
That may be true ... but how do you know this ?
Did this friend tell you that's where she read it ? Or did you just make that up?
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Since none of these witnesses has come forward and the news media keeps telling us what Wilson's friends and family tell them, that kind of hearsay has far less credibility than Johnson's account.

TheL8Elvis said:
That's an interesting theory. How did it work out for Michael Dunn ?
Do you have some statistics to back up this claim? Or did you just make it up?
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Dunn was not a cop or a vigilante on patrol protecting the neighborhood. That case is less analogous.

As for stats, I'm not sure what you think needs backing up, that cops use excessive force and are rarely held accountable, I don't need to write you a term paper. The effort would be wasted in this thread.

But it's very curious how the rate of police brutality incidents drop precipitously when cops are on camera.

sir drinks-a-lot said:
TRANSLATION: "You're a racist!"
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I don't know why you think that required a translation.

boooeee said:
If this is a recording of the shooting, any thoughts as to why the first shot from within the car doesn't show up on the audio? The witness accounts and the police accounts seem pretty consistent on that point. I suppose the shot could have been muffled by the car.
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The guy was recording audio for some kind of short message. The recording didn't start until after the first shot.

LTC8K6 said:
I'm finding it difficult to believe that Tiffany did not record the shooting. She says she pulled out her phone to record, but then the shooting started.
Wilson and Brown ran well away from where she was parked, not towards her.
And Wilson's SUV should have been between her and Wilson/Brown.
It's too bad she did not use her phone.
We apparently could have had video of most of the incident.
If she had just started it recording and ducked, we'd have verified audio if the incident.
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Not everyone is quick on the draw with their phone cameras.

Polaris said:
Is it just me or are there people on this board who are a half step from peeing their pants in anticipation of getting to call someone a racist?
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I don't get why this makes sense to you. We can easily see racist POVs here. I realize people don't see themselves as racist even when they are. I don't care if I post it or not and I'm certainly not glad to see it.



Ammonitida said:
Parcells is not a doctor and is not credible. [snipped, been addressed
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Ammonitida said:
Exactly. He's not a doctor. I haven't read anywhere that Baden cast doubt on the "charging" account. He has instead maintained a neutral position on the matter.
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Purcells assisted Baden who had impeccable credentials, so your attempt to impeach the autopsy reports is a FAIL. You can't impeach an autopsy as not done by a qualified examiner because the assistant was not credentialed to do the autopsy alone.

The head wounds are what they are. No amount of hissy fitting here is going to change them.

Unabogie said:
So the attorney of the guy who recorded the shots being fired -- while remarking what a small world it is -- comes to learn that one of her OTHER clients is related to Michael Brown, and this is somehow newsworthy because...?
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And this is a big deal to you why?

LTC8K6 said:
Close relative, and it's dated the 15th.

And Brown was a recording artist, which indicates audio processing gear in the family.

See how this works? :D

Actually, I sure hope they didn't get fooled by someone, or worse.

I hope the recording is genuine, although I think they are mistaken about what it is a recording of...
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Yeah, I see how people in the thread dismiss tangible evidence in favor of rumors and hearsay and twisted versions that try to make a desired outcome fit the evidence.
 
Mike! said:
Meanwhile, I've made a new diagram...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=781&pictureid=9021[/qimg]
I'd say it's safe to assume, at least from my crude rendering, that the first shot couldn't happen to the bottom illustration, but the kill shot surely could. Where the first head shot hit, as the head is rotating downward, could be any of the center three.
Here's how I see it though. First shot to the head is the third, the impact turned the head down even more, resulting in the final kill shot shown at the bottom. That's my best guess, anyway, given the available information.
Clearly, I should have numbered them too. :blush:
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You have one serious problem. You still have shots coming in at a horizontal angle. The fact you can't replicate the two head shot trajectories being somewhat parallel as Purcells said they were is even more evidence the shots came from Wilson's arm or shooting level and Brown's head was lower, close to the ground.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Purcells assisted Baden who had impeccable credentials, so your attempt to impeach the autopsy reports is a FAIL. You can't impeach an autopsy as not done by a qualified examiner because the assistant was not credentialed to do the autopsy alone.

The head wounds are what they are. No amount of hissy fitting here is going to change them.
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I attempted to do no such thing. I simply disregarded the personal opinion of his assistant. I provided a quote from Baden himself who apparently has remained neutral on the issue of whether or not he was charging at Wilson.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You have one serious problem. You still have shots coming in at a horizontal angle. The fact you can't replicate the two head shot trajectories being somewhat parallel as Purcells said they were is even more evidence the shots came from Wilson's arm or shooting level and Brown's head was lower, close to the ground.
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Once again, I kept it straight because I (we) don't have enough information to fill in the possible angle or the distance between Brown and Wilson. The only thing I know is Brown was 6'4" standing up. Most everyone will agree, he wasn't standing straight up at the moment he was shot. I'll stand by the reasonably straight line until conflicting information becomes available.
 
Mike! said:
Once again, I kept it straight because I (we) don't have enough information to fill in the possible angle or the distance between Brown and Wilson. The only thing I know is Brown was 6'4" standing up. Most everyone will agree, he wasn't standing straight up at the moment he was shot. I'll stand by the reasonably straight line until conflicting information becomes available.
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And to aim a gun it has to at eye level, whatever that may be at the time. And we don't know how tall Wilson is either.

Maybe Wilson was running forward a bit crouched while shooting at a fleeing felon. Not good for marksmanship. But when the felon stopped and gave up, Wilson stopped too, and stood up. Brown then charges and Wilson gives him the last shots- 6 of them. Perhaps for todays discussion we could use a gun height of 5 1/2 feet, and a brown head ht of 4 1/2'?

I'm 6'4, and in a tackler's position- I just tried it at the refrigerator , my head is at 52" Standing eye level is 70". Cops are usually taller than average, so I think my numbers are within feasible parameters.

Who is making the pics? How about a redo using these numbers and say, 15 feet apart? Because I doubt Wilson would get any closer to a guy that already broke his face. Hmm,that is only about 4 degrees?

The possible range of Browns head tilt is way more than that.
 
Mike! said:
Once again, I kept it straight because I (we) don't have enough information to fill in the possible angle or the distance between Brown and Wilson. The only thing I know is Brown was 6'4" standing up. Most everyone will agree, he wasn't standing straight up at the moment he was shot. I'll stand by the reasonably straight line until conflicting information becomes available.
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But that is not true. You can use the trajectory found in the autopsy and draw the line back to where the source would be to get that trajectory.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
But that is not true. You can use the trajectory found in the autopsy and draw the line back to where the source would be to get that trajectory.
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Perhaps you are privy to a more detailed version of the autopsy than I. Provide a link to a detailed version that shows trajectory and I'll happily use that information on the next one.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So you assume the lawyer is that ignorant? Why not just acknowledge your desire to discount evidence that you don't like?
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My response to that would be that this recording, without an indisputable time stamp that connects it to the shooting, is not evidence at all.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Hung jury, not acquitted.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/15/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/
Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

So he'll already be in jail for the rest of his life ... I see that worked out well for him.
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Again, my mistake on the acquittal.

However, regardless of the fact that he is spending the rest of his life in jail on other charges, he still got away with murder.

Think about this way, had Dunn done everything exactly the same with the exception of continuing to fire as the vehicle fled, he'd be a free man today.

Brown's robbery and assault of Wilson inform of of the totality of the circumstances, as the shooting was not an event that occurred in a vacuum. State of mind, motivation, disposition, etc.

It may turn out that none of that is particularly relevant if it was the case that wilson shot brown 30 feet away while surrendering.
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That last bit is really the only thing that matters at this point. How much of an irredeemably violent thug Michael Brown might have been is irrelevant if he was surrendering to Wilson from 30 feet away when he was shot dead.
 
Mike! said:
No. We're NOT going back to the road.
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:dl:
sir drinks-a-lot said:
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That video is so funny! "You scored higher than Hitler!" :D

GWCarver said:
My response to that would be that this recording, without an indisputable time stamp that connects it to the shooting, is not evidence at all.
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THIS^^^ If this audio were picked up on, let's say someone's home surveillance system, I'd have an easier time accepting the evidence. Certain models of the camera systems can record audio, and the sound of gunfire would register at quite a distance.
 
Unabogie said:
It depends. What color is the lawyer?
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I don't know for sure, but the NAACP is involved so she may be black. :D

Adolphus Pruitt, president of the local St. Louis NAACP chapter, says he believes the audio is the real deal. He says his office has acted as a liaison between the witnesses who are afraid to come forward for fear of retribution and the FBI agents investigating the case. That's how he met the man who made the tape as well as his lawyer, Lopa Blumenthal.
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Pruitt says the recording was made with the video-texting app Glide. One of the reasons he says he believes the recording to be authentic is that the app automatically time stamps each entry, and the date, time and location of the man's apartment where the video was made seem to add up.
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http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/da..._captures_audio_of_michael_brown_shooting.php

ETA: Even worse, she could be a Cardinals fan.
 
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Polaris said:
Is it just me or are there people on this board who are a half step from peeing their pants in anticipation of getting to call someone a racist?
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Some people use the term "Racist" with all the care and consideration for truth and accuracy that Joe McCarthy had when using the terms "Red" and "Commie".

And although it is probably inevitable, I could with a little less "CSI Investigator Wannabe" also.
 
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