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Michael Brown Shooting

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Polaris said:
Is it just me or are there people on this board who are a half step from peeing their pants in anticipation of getting to call someone a racist?
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Personally, I would rate the anticipation level I have for calling someone a racist at least three steps below peeing in my pants, and significantly lower than the anticipation level people in this thread have for making sophomoric jokes at the expense of a dead kid.
 
johnny karate said:
Again, my mistake on the acquittal.

However, regardless of the fact that he is spending the rest of his life in jail on other charges, he still got away with murder.

Think about this way, had Dunn done everything exactly the same with the exception of continuing to fire as the vehicle fled, he'd be a free man today.
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Well, he might still be in jail while waiting for a new trial ... IDK that he would be free. But enough of him.

johnny karate said:
That last bit is really the only thing that matters at this point. How much of an irredeemably violent thug Michael Brown might have been is irrelevant if he was surrendering to Wilson from 30 feet away when he was shot dead.
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I agree.

But since we have only heard one side of the story so far, it's still in play as relevant.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Since none of these witnesses has come forward and the news media keeps telling us what Wilson's friends and family tell them, that kind of hearsay has far less credibility than Johnson's account.
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When you say come forward, do you mean come forward to the media ?
Because you don't know who has given statements to the police and who hasn't ... do you?

As to johnsons account, I give hearsay equal credibility with him at this point.
 
Cylinder said:
Appeal to emotion aside, at least for me it's been dealt with in a variety of ways throughout this thread but maybe I can address this specific question more directly.

1. The robbery video is not dispositive concerning the shooting. It does not prove that Wilson's use of force was justified.

2. The robbery video rebuts the gentle giant portrayal of Brown and the argument that Brown would be incapable of aggression in normal situations.

3. The robbery video provides motives that could help explain why a contact with police would escalate in that Brown reasonably should have been aware that he was facing some jail time.

4.The robbery video seems to be consistent with some of the behaviors attributed to Wilson's narrative in that he had, just minutes earlier, used kind of strong-arm tactics to achieve a criminal motive.
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I agree with all of your points.

However, Michael Brown could have been biggest, baddest thug in the St Louis metropolitan area fresh off a string of bank robberies, and it still wouldn't lend a shred of logic to the notion that he lowered his head to charge "like a bull" at a police officer shooting at him, who only a moment ago he was fleeing.

That particular moment exists independently of the robbery and the altercation, and neither the robbery nor the altercation tell us much about it.
 
Context is everything. Pointing a loaded gun at someone during a domestic altercation. Briefly choking them. Misdemeanors.

A Yonkers police officer has been arrested after pointing a firearm and choking a woman during an domestic dispute in Yorktown, Yorktown police said. Police said Saponara, 33, of Yorktown, pointed the firearm at the woman and briefly choked her during the dispute Saturday at his residence. Saponara was charged with second-degree menacing and criminal obstruction of breathing, misdemeanors. Link
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Stealing several packs of cigars, shoving the store clerk. Violent felony.

The law doesn't make sense sometimes.
 
newyorkguy said:
Context is everything. Pointing a loaded gun at someone during a domestic altercation. Briefly choking them. Misdemeanors.



Stealing several packs of cigars, shoving the store clerk. Violent felony.

The law doesn't make sense sometimes.
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I think it's clear that if he had been charged with stealing the cigarettes, even including the shoving, he'd have pled down to something far below a felony.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
When you say come forward, do you mean come forward to the media ?
Because you don't know who has given statements to the police and who hasn't ... do you?

As to johnsons account, I give hearsay equal credibility with him at this point.
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They have supposedly come forward to the media, they just want to be listed as anonymous friend of Wilson and they've not given first hand accounts.

Do you simply imagine there are all these magical witnesses out there? Or do you have evidence of any that claim to have a first hand account?
 
Unabogie said:
I think it's clear that if he had been charged with stealing the cigarettes, even including the shoving, he'd have pled down to something far below a felony.
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I'm sure he would have. But I would question charging him with a felony in the first place (IIRC a local prosecutor called it second-degree robbery). IMO it was barely a cut above horseplay. I agree it went too far, I agree Brown acted like a bully and a jerk, but when I see that video I don't see a violent felony taking place.
 
Mike! said:
Meanwhile, I've made a new diagram...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=781&pictureid=9021[/qimg]
I'd say it's safe to assume, at least from my crude rendering, that the first shot couldn't happen to the bottom illustration, but the kill shot surely could. Where the first head shot hit, as the head is rotating downward, could be any of the center three.
Here's how I see it though. First shot to the head is the third, the impact turned the head down even more, resulting in the final kill shot shown at the bottom. That's my best guess, anyway, given the available information.
Clearly, I should have numbered them too. :blush:
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I am not assuming that the shot that hit the top of Mr. Browns head was in fact the " kill shot ".
Granted, there is no way he would have survived that shot, however, the examiners have stated that the shot to the chest, or the other shot to the head could have actually been the ones that killed him.
The only likely safe assumption about the shot to the top of his head is that it was probably the last bullet to strike him.
 
Distracted1 said:
I am not assuming that the shot that hit the top of Mr. Browns head was in fact the " kill shot ".
Granted, there is no way he would have survived that shot, however, the examiners have stated that the shot to the chest, or the other shot to the head could have actually been the ones that killed him.
The only likely safe assumption about the shot to the top of his head is that it was probably the last bullet to strike him.
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Fair points. Weather it killed him or not, I'd guess the shot to the eye was a 'lights out' moment. He may have been starting to double up in pain from the last of the shots to the arm, chest.
 
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newyorkguy said:
I'm sure he would have. But I would question charging him with a felony in the first place (IIRC a local prosecutor called it second-degree robbery). IMO it was barely a cut above horseplay. I agree it went too far, I agree Brown acted like a bully and a jerk, but when I see that video I don't see a violent felony taking place.
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Well, remember that the store clerk and the store owners didn't even consider it worthy of filing a complaint. And this apparently happened before they knew that Brown had been killed by Darren Wilson. Clearly Mike Brown committed a crime that day, but folks calling it a "strongarm robbery" -- even if that term is correct technically -- are doing so to maximize the shock value. Whatever happened that day looked like Brown and Johnson were buying something, and then Brown decided he no longer wanted to pay, or deserved a little extra, and took it and then shoved the little clerk aside when he tried to stop it. And what he stole was a box of cigars. People want to make him into Babyface Nelson over it, but that's just them displaying their biases and lack of critical thinking skills, because they think if they can prove Brown was a "thug", then anything goes after that.
 
Distracted1 said:
I am not assuming that the shot that hit the top of Mr. Browns head was in fact the " kill shot ".
Granted, there is no way he would have survived that shot, however, the examiners have stated that the shot to the chest, or the other shot to the head could have actually been the ones that killed him.
The only likely safe assumption about the shot to the top of his head is that it was probably the last bullet to strike him.
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So this means what? That he was dead anyway, what's a couple more shots in the head of a downed suspect?
 
Unabogie said:
Well, remember that the store clerk and the store owners didn't even consider it worthy of filing a complaint. And this apparently happened before they knew that Brown had been killed by Darren Wilson. Clearly Mike Brown committed a crime that day, but folks calling it a "strongarm robbery" -- even if that term is correct technically -- are doing so to maximize the shock value. Whatever happened that day looked like Brown and Johnson were buying something, and then Brown decided he no longer wanted to pay, or deserved a little extra, and took it and then shoved the little clerk aside when he tried to stop it. And what he stole was a box of cigars. People want to make him into Babyface Nelson over it, but that's just them displaying their biases and lack of critical thinking skills, because they think if they can prove Brown was a "thug", then anything goes after that.
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The clerk had to have called police, otherwise how would police have responded to the store?
 
Distracted1 said:
Then went back and threatened the " little clerk " with more violence should he have the nerve to protest further.

Must be nice to go out with Mr. Brown. It's not rape if all he did was scare you into it, right?
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Oh? You have evidence of this? Who went back and threatened him? And how did you turn Mike Brown into a rapist? Wow, this new-fangled skepticism is a sight to behold.
 
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