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Michael Brown Shooting

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Mike! said:
Could it be two different guns that are close, but in two different places, and completely unrelated to the Brown shooting, other than possibly being the later reported gunfire?
Six shots fired from one gun.
Four shots return fire from the other.
That would explain the tonal differences between the first six and following four.
Possible?
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Unlikely - Wilson's shots were the only ones reported. Return fire is pretty much impossible - there's no known source of that shooting, and I think Wilson would notice someone shooting at him.

Unless I've missed where the audio has been 100% confirmed as that of Officer Wilson's weapon. Has that happened?
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Not officially, but the lawyer of the guy who recorded it (who apparently doesn't want to give us his name - and I wouldn't either, if it were of me lamely trying to run game on some girl over the internet and not noticing *gunfire* in the background) has said that he does live in the apartment nearby, so...yeah. We can be reasonably confident that those are the shots.
 
johnny karate said:
On the murder charge? Pretty good. He was acquitted using the exact defensive strategy Skeptic Ginger described.

And the "black people are intrinsically violent and terrifying" meme seems to be enjoying quite a bit of success in this thread by people who have yet to explain how Brown's robbery and assault of Wilson informs what happened when he was some 20 - 30 feet away and running in the other direction.
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LTC8K6 said:
IIRC, there was a hung jury on the murder charge.

He will be tried again on that.

They thought about not bothering to try him again because of the length of the sentence he already has for the 3 attempted murder charges.

Dunn will serve a very long time anyway, even without the new murder trial.
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Hung jury, not acquitted.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/15/justice/florida-loud-music-trial/
Dunn convicted of attempted murder; hung jury on murder in 'loud-music' trial

So he'll already be in jail for the rest of his life ... I see that worked out well for him.

Brown's robbery and assault of Wilson inform of of the totality of the circumstances, as the shooting was not an event that occurred in a vacuum. State of mind, motivation, disposition, etc.

It may turn out that none of that is particularly relevant if it was the case that wilson shot brown 30 feet away while surrendering.
 
Meanwhile, I've made a new diagram...
picture.php

I'd say it's safe to assume, at least from my crude rendering, that the first shot couldn't happen to the bottom illustration, but the kill shot surely could. Where the first head shot hit, as the head is rotating downward, could be any of the center three.
Here's how I see it though. First shot to the head is the third, the impact turned the head down even more, resulting in the final kill shot shown at the bottom. That's my best guess, anyway, given the available information.
Clearly, I should have numbered them too. :blush:
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Well let's just look at what was actually said.

CNN transcript


So if you want to make an issue that legally speaking, these two avoided making statements that might unfairly influence the jury pool, be my guest. That's pretty standard practice. But don't exaggerate that they were completely neutral in what they said the autopsy showed.


Should I go back through your posts and see what unsupported evidence you didn't wave off? "Josie's" third or fourth hand account? Right wing blogosphere claims Wilson had a facial fracture? Twitter claim a dozen witnesses supported Wilson's story?
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Parcells is not a doctor and is not credible. Here's what the real doc had to say, when asked about the issue of "charging" -- "These wounds could be, again, done in either way, because the head is so mobile up, and the arm, the shooter's arm is so mobile, that they can have many different positions in which you get the same bullet track in the head. But what we can say is that when the bullet wound at the top of the head entered Michael Brown's body, he immediately lost consciousness, collapsed, and died. The mom wanted to know, for example, did he have any pain and suffering? Not after that gunshot wound. And he was then immobile and collapsed immediately on that shot."

And even he doesn't mention bullet ricochet, which can make it very difficult to determine the angle at which the bullet entered the head.

Should I go back through your posts and see what unsupported evidence you didn't wave off? "Josie's" third or fourth hand account? Right wing blogosphere claims Wilson had a facial fracture? Twitter claim a dozen witnesses supported Wilson's story?
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I don't recall treating any of those rumors as verified facts. I just gave reasons for the why the CNN source could have been mistaken, and of course I poked fun at how desperate you were to discredit these rumors. And btw, none have been discredited. CNN is no more credible than FOXNEWS or the Washington Post. It still remains to be seen if the facial fracture rumor is false or true, as with the audio (which you now present as 100% verified evidence -- revealing your incredible bias).
 
johnny karate said:
And the "black people are intrinsically violent and terrifying" meme seems to be enjoying quite a bit of success in this thread by people who have yet to explain how Brown's robbery and assault of Wilson informs what happened when he was some 20 - 30 feet away and running in the other direction.
Click to expand...

Appeal to emotion aside, at least for me it's been dealt with in a variety of ways throughout this thread but maybe I can address this specific question more directly.

1. The robbery video is not dispositive concerning the shooting. It does not prove that Wilson's use of force was justified.

2. The robbery video rebuts the gentle giant portrayal of Brown and the argument that Brown would be incapable of aggression in normal situations.

3. The robbery video provides motives that could help explain why a contact with police would escalate in that Brown reasonably should have been aware that he was facing some jail time.

4.The robbery video seems to be consistent with some of the behaviors attributed to Wilson's narrative in that he had, just minutes earlier, used kind of strong-arm tactics to achieve a criminal motive.
 
Mike! said:
Meanwhile, I've made a new diagram...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=781&pictureid=9021[/qimg]
I'd say it's safe to assume, at least from my crude rendering, that the first shot couldn't happen to the bottom illustration, but the kill shot surely could. Where the first head shot hit, as the head is rotating downward, would be ether the third or forth.
Here's how I see it. First shot to the head is the third, the impact turned the head down even more, resulting in the final kill shot shown at the bottom. That's my best guess, anyway, given the available information.
Clearly, I should have numbered them too. :blush:
Click to expand...

The red line round could also ricochet towards the face, or if you bend the head lower, just travel towards the face.

Or not.

With Wilson standing and Brown falling, the last two shots would already be at a downward angle.
 
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Mike! said:
Meanwhile, I've made a new diagram...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=781&pictureid=9021[/qimg]
I'd say it's safe to assume, at least from my crude rendering, that the first shot couldn't happen to the bottom illustration, but the kill shot surely could. Where the first head shot hit, as the head is rotating downward, would be ether the third or forth.
Here's how I see it. First shot to the head is the third, the impact turned the head down even more, resulting in the final kill shot shown at the bottom. That's my best guess, anyway, given the available information.
Clearly, I should have numbered them too. :blush:
Click to expand...

Nicely done! I was actually looking for a side view yesterday but I found none. One little nit, however.

You need to take into account the height of Michael Brown both running and kneeling, the height of Wilson and the height of Wilson's gun barrel.

Also the slope of the road.
 
Ammonitida said:
Parcells is not a doctor and is not credible. Here's what the real doc had to say, when asked about the issue of "charging" -- "These wounds could be, again, done in either way, because the head is so mobile up, and the arm, the shooter's arm is so mobile, that they can have many different positions in which you get the same bullet track in the head. But what we can say is that when the bullet wound at the top of the head entered Michael Brown's body, he immediately lost consciousness, collapsed, and died. The mom wanted to know, for example, did he have any pain and suffering? Not after that gunshot wound. And he was then immobile and collapsed immediately on that shot."

And even he doesn't mention bullet ricochet, which can make it very difficult to determine the angle at which the bullet entered the head.




I don't recall treating any of those rumors as verified facts. I just gave reasons for the why the CNN source could have been mistaken, and of course I poked fun at how desperate you were to discredit these rumors. And btw, none have been discredited. CNN is no more credible than FOXNEWS or the Washington Post. It still remains to be seen if the facial fracture rumor is false or true, as with the audio (which you now present as 100% verified evidence -- revealing your incredible bias).
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This was already handled last week:

http://wonkette.com/557796/stupidest-man-on-internet-proves-michael-brown-autopsy-is-complete-fraud
 
Elagabalus said:
Nicely done! I was actually looking for a side view yesterday but I found none. One little nit, however.

You need to take into account the height of Michael Brown both running and kneeling, the height of Wilson and the height of Wilson's gun barrel.

Also the slope of the road.
Click to expand...

No. We're NOT going back to the road.
 
LTC8K6 said:
http://s29.postimg.org/7rq2722xj/mike_brown_Lopa.png

Purported message from Lopa Blumenthal regarding a client that is a close relative of Michael Brown.
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So the attorney of the guy who recorded the shots being fired -- while remarking what a small world it is -- comes to learn that one of her OTHER clients is related to Michael Brown, and this is somehow newsworthy because...?
 
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202626960300648

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202628061568179

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10202628045407775

Some videos I had not seen.

I believe I can now count 7 marking cones, two of which are definitely past Brown's body.

I have the 3 near the body, the 3 we can see in the photo with the hat, and in one of the videos above, I can see one more cone in front of the SUV parked on the side of the road. I can also see the cone with the unidentified object in that same video. It is farther down the road than it first seemed.
 
Unabogie said:
So the attorney of the guy who recorded the shots being fired -- while remarking what a small world it is -- comes to learn that one of her OTHER clients is related to Michael Brown, and this is somehow newsworthy because...?
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Close relative, and it's dated the 15th.

And Brown was a recording artist, which indicates audio processing gear in the family.

See how this works? :D

Actually, I sure hope they didn't get fooled by someone, or worse.

I hope the recording is genuine, although I think they are mistaken about what it is a recording of...
 
LTC8K6 said:
It could be lots of things, including a recording of the incident.

I have heard that the officer's SUV skidded to a stop, making a loud squealing noise. Wherever Tiffany Mitchell was, the tire squealing attracted her attention.

Yet we don't hear that on the recording.
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Gun shots are audible at a considerable distance.

This is yet another case where having a network of GSD stations would make a big difference. Not only would we know right now how many bullets were fired, but have a pretty good idea of exactly where.
 
BenBurch said:
Gun shots are audible at a considerable distance.

This is yet another case where having a network of GSD stations would make a big difference. Not only would we know right now how many bullets were fired, but have a pretty good idea of exactly where.
Click to expand...

Low frequency sound travels a lot better than high frequency sound. The sound of a gun shot has a lot of low frequency energy.
 
LTC8K6 said:
IIRC, there was a hung jury on the murder charge.

He will be tried again on that.

They thought about not bothering to try him again because of the length of the sentence he already has for the 3 attempted murder charges.

Dunn will serve a very long time anyway, even without the new murder trial.
Click to expand...

Yeah, hung jury not acquittal. My bad.

But the point is he beat the murder charge. And he did it despite the fact that his victim was seated inside a vehicle when he was shot, and Dunn's story of being in fear for his life was contradicted by pretty much all of the evidence and witness testimony.

I don't find the way the trial turned out and the fact that Dunn was a middle-aged white guy while his victim was a young black guy at all coincidental.
 
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Monketey Ghost said:
I'd say the only way the two are related is if the officer heard a radio report in the unaccounted for time prior to the shooting.

Either that or Mike-Mike felt so badly about his crime that he spontaneously confessed. Doesn't seem likely though.
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I agree. Nor do I think the altercation in the vehicle informs the shooting in any meaningful way, other than to establish Wilson's state of mind if he decided to keep firing on a person in the act of surrendering.
 
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