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Nope. None of them know each other. Where did you get that information?

Some are apparently standing together in videos and pics, right after the shooting. Tiffany and Piaget, iirc. I believe they were telling Brown's Mom their story, because she is with them.

Dorian Johnson has also been spotted in the crowd with his dark shirt off and slung over his shoulder, iirc.
 
<snip> It is easy to discuss the plights of the Michael Browns in the world from the safety of a quiet suburb. It totally disregards the real life situation of people like my parents who were just trying to raise a family without having one of their children killed- or having everything they own stolen. For those of us who brush elbows with Mr. Brown daily, the police however flawed are all we have.

I wouldn't compare Detroit in the 1980s with Ferguson Missouri today.

I live in an urban area and the population is very diverse both by race and income level. In my working class neighborhood of mostly two-family houses, Hispanics are probably the majority. (Yet a retired white cop lives across the street from me.) There are gangs in neighborhoods nearby, there have been shootings, there have been mass arrests. I know people in the neighborhood who are on edge all the time. They are convinced there is danger all about and because of that they have a lot of anger. I'm sure some of them think Michael Brown got what he deserved.

My feeling is some people are projecting their fear outward. They're exaggerating the dangers. I know people who get very worried when they see a couple of black men approaching. They're always afraid "something is going to happen." I choose not to live that way. So far it seems to be working.
 
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How is moving the mike even worth mentioning, let alone needing multiple posts pondering the 'change' in sound that might not even be there?

Given you've accepted flaky evidence in favor of Wilson and rejected anything that doesn't favor him, this sounded like you were implying something fishy with the recording.

All you needed to do was say you weren't implying anything was suspicious.


No. In the absence of any claim by me, any other implication is your imagination..

Perhaps you'd rather go for the, 'maybe it was a recording of the gunshots 2 hours later' to hand wave this evidence off?

That is more insight into your way of thinking, rather than mine..



I see you don't deal well with scientific diagrams like audio analysation and maps..

The waveform I posted clearly shows the amplitude of the 2nd group of shots was less, in some cases 50% less, than the first group..

I was just trying to account for it..

The movement of the gun seemed unlikely, the explanation of which to you, would be a waste of time, so movement or interference ( intentional or not - i.e. - the subject was facing a window and turned away from it ) of the microphone was a more likely explanation.
 
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Some are apparently standing together in videos and pics, right after the shooting. Tiffany and Piaget, iirc. I believe they were telling Brown's Mom their story, because she is with them.

Dorian Johnson has also been spotted in the crowd with his dark shirt off and slung over his shoulder, iirc.

Seems natural to me.

"My son! What happened!?"

"You're his mom? I saw everything..."

(thinking) "Holy ****! He's really dead!? I can't believe it..."
 
Yes, I was totally unaware that police officers are sometimes killed with their own guns. :rolleyes:

In your scenario, you did not intend to kill the cop, but you took his gun during a fight, so he couldn't shoot you.

The cop is not going to consider that. He's just going to shoot you if you take his gun.

Maybe if you immediately throw it as far as you can...you won't get shot at.
Claiming self-defense during a struggle with a cop who is arresting you, or even asling you questipms, will NOT get you anywhere
 
Caught with friends throwing/smashing our empty beer bottles behind a church in Southwest Detroit. That was part of our "mischief" that night anyway. We were generally miscreants, and on any given summer evening or weekend we were up to no good. We always expected a beating if the cops pulled up, and generally ran from them whenever we saw them.
The chases were quite a thrill for us.

I'd consider you lucky, then. In my case, I walked through a subway turnstile, and was shoved into a wall by a cop who accused me of jumping it. Not the worst beating I got from an authority figure as a kid, but still completely absurd.

Even then, I didn't even consider his gun. Even if you kill the cop with it, you're in *huge* trouble.
 
That's what the pathologist said, which is contrary to your armchair analysis of bullet trajectory, Dr Ginger. ...
Well let's just look at what was actually said.

CNN transcript
BADEN: Well, the autopsy itself counted as consistent with police or witnesses. There are many different witness testimonies. Many of them seem to line up in one direction, some in another direction. Right now, till we get more information, till we get from a forensic science point of view, can't distinguish -- can't make a definite judgment.

Now, the lawyers who've interviewed witnesses -- we haven't interviewed, we don't interview witnesses -- may be impressed with some witnesses who seem more -- more trustworthy than others, and as the police are doing too. This is what juries are supposed to do. Juries are supposed to look at the witnesses and tell who is telling the truth and who isn't, but lawyers do that all the time. And so they have more information than we have.

But right now, from the science point of view, we can't determine which witness, and there are all different kinds of observations made, is most consistent with all of the forensic findings. ...

PARCELLS: I don't think we can -- we cannot speculate exact order of gunshot wounds. Forensically, that's impossible. However, Dr. Baden and I do feel that, because of the two gunshot wounds to the head, indicating that Mr. Brown was bending over as they were coming down, that those two shots were most likely the last two to occur to him.

And then a very important point is that this boy, 6'3 with a shot coming around the eye and moving downward, exiting in the jaw and entering above the right clavicle, that clearly is downward. You have someone who is falling. If you want to conjecture, what if he was charging like a mad bull toward an officer with a gun, I find that unlikely. Most likely he was already toppling and his head was pitched forward when that shot was fired and moved in a downward trajectory. That all has to be taken into consideration.

So if you want to make an issue that legally speaking, these two avoided making statements that might unfairly influence the jury pool, be my guest. That's pretty standard practice. But don't exaggerate that they were completely neutral in what they said the autopsy showed.


The audio recording has not been verified as a recording of Michael Brown's shooting (could be of another shooting that occurred in the area or not even a shooting at all), so it does not count as evidence of anything at this point. All Brown's camp have are witnesses. Wilson is also a witness, who according to the police chief was treated at a hospital for being punched in the face by Brown. I'm still going to give the benefit of the doubt to the cop.
Should I go back through your posts and see what unsupported evidence you didn't wave off? "Josie's" third or fourth hand account? Right wing blogosphere claims Wilson had a facial fracture? Twitter claim a dozen witnesses supported Wilson's story?
 
Some are apparently standing together in videos and pics, right after the shooting. Tiffany and Piaget, iirc. I believe they were telling Brown's Mom their story, because she is with them.

Dorian Johnson has also been spotted in the crowd with his dark shirt off and slung over his shoulder, iirc.

They were witnesses, so it stands to reason they'd be there in pictures. And if they said out loud "I saw the whole thing", it makes sense they'd be asked what happened by the mother of the victim. What says they knew each other before the shooting? I'd read in multiple places that they did not. Links?
 
The washington post is a right wing blog ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...cuffle-with-michael-brown-family-friend-says/
The officer who fatally shot an unarmed Ferguson youth suffered a fracture to his eye bone in a scuffle with Michael Brown, according to a family friend.

The hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney, and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine if Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.
"According to a family friend" and a right wing blog. That claim came from the GatewayPundit and what is more likely than he actually had a fracture is the friend read the blog.


Why, with all the evidence above, do you believe he will "get off" ?
Because it's a trend that people who make up these 'feared for my life' excuses are rarely convicted even when the evidence clearly indicates they are lying. All it takes is the defense attorney picking a juror or two that define reasonable doubt as anything the accused says short of a confession is reasonable doubt.
 
Yes, I was totally unaware that police officers are sometimes killed with their own guns. :rolleyes:

In your scenario, you did not intend to kill the cop, but you took his gun during a fight, so he couldn't shoot you.

The cop is not going to consider that. He's just going to shoot you if you take his gun.

Maybe if you immediately throw it as far as you can...you won't get shot at.
Did I fail to mention that it is entirely foolhardy to attack a policeman?

if I were going to attack one, getting his weapon would be a priority, as it would for anyone foolish, crazy, or violent enough to do so.
 
"According to a family friend" and a right wing blog. That claim came from the GatewayPundit and what is more likely than he actually had a fracture is the friend read the blog.

That may be true ... but how do you know this ?

Did this friend tell you that's where she read it ? Or did you just make that up ?


Because it's a trend that people who make up these 'feared for my life' excuses are rarely convicted even when the evidence clearly indicates they are lying. All it takes is the defense attorney picking a juror or two that define reasonable doubt as anything the accused says short of a confession is reasonable doubt.

That's an interesting theory. How did it work out for Michael Dunn ?

Do you have some statistics to back up this claim ? Or did you just make it up ?
 
Aren't all three of the "witnesses" Ginger is basing her decision on, all friends?
No. Mitchell doesn't live in the area and didn't know Brown. She was picking up Crenshaw who was her employee.

And were any interviewed at the scene? or only later? Johnson was involved, and the other two worked with him?
Crenshaw and Johnson were interviewed at the scene on camera the day of the shooting. The first interview I saw with Mitchell was the next day with an attorney.


And the shots in the phone call, wasn't that call made at 2:00 PM? And who records their phone calls?

Or did I miss a couple posts that debunked those points?
You apparently missed a lot.
 
They were witnesses, so it stands to reason they'd be there in pictures. And if they said out loud "I saw the whole thing", it makes sense they'd be asked what happened by the mother of the victim. What says they knew each other before the shooting? I'd read in multiple places that they did not. Links?

Links to what?
 
As for the mike moving around or being interfered with, I would claim that when talking on the phone it is very common to walk around, to move the phone from one hand to another, or to otherwise accidentally make noise that could be described as interfering with the microphone.
He wasn't on the phone. The recording is in the background of a the man making a computer recording of an audio to go with some computer image that was to be sent like an instagram according to the attorney.
 
He wasn't on the phone. The recording is in the background of a the man making a computer recording of an audio to go with some computer image that was to be sent like an instagram according to the attorney.

Ginger, I have to go right now, but could you please tell us what time the conversation was recorded? St. Louis time would be best.
 
As for the 3 witnesses all lacking credibility, I imagine if you assume every black person is going to lie in these circumstances because they are circling the wagons against the cops, then you might decide that. Where as "Josie" sounded white and was a friend of the white guy so she's clearly credible. :rolleyes:

How inconvenient then that the autopsy and audio corroborate the 3 witnesses' statements.
 
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