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Michael Brown Shooting

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marplots said:
Northwest, by Rouge Park
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Nice to see a fellow Detroit native anywhere.
I grew up there, and was a teenager in the eighties. Since I have lived in some Detroit suburbs, Laguna Niguel CA, and here in Philly ( my home these last 15 years ).
Growing up in that city during its decline was an experience so far outside what is considered " normal " that I still find myself surprised when things work like they are supposed to.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
So you are trying to discount this audio as a fake now?

A right wing blog claiming without evidence that Wilson had an orbital fracture, no problem.

But a lawyer coming forward with the background on the audio and a report it is now in the hands of the FBI, that, you question is a fake.

:rolleyes:

You might want to listen to the news shows the lawyer has been on explaining how she came across the audio and what happened next before you start dismissing it.

Essentially her client told her about the roommate's recording. The lawyer talked it over with her husband, also a lawyer, and approached the roommate saying it could be important. The roommate agreed to turn the audio over to the FBI which they did. While he wants to remain anonymous for now, he has agreed to testify about the audio if needed. The lawyer said the man would be a very credible witness.
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It is totally beyond me how you are coming up with the contention that I am claiming the audio is a fake!

Did I confuse you with terms like " amplitude " and " horizontal " ....

You are such an expert on everything.. How about an acoustical analysis that rules out my speculation that the microphone was moved?

Did anyone else think my comments on the recording, insinuated in any way that I think it's a fake?

Anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10190792#post10190792
 
Skeptical Greg said:
It is totally beyond me how you are coming up with the contention that I am claiming the audio is a fake!

Did I confuse you with terms like " amplitude " and " horizontal " ....

You are such an expert on everything.. How about an acoustical analysis that rules out my speculation that the microphone was moved?

Did anyone else think my comments on the recording, insinuated in any way that I think it's a fake?

Anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10190792#post10190792
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I thought your post was straightforward.
 
Distracted1 said:
What does the audio tell one, other than the number and timing of the shots?

Ten shots were fired in about four seconds. Reports say that the autopsy found that six of them hit the target. There was a three second gap ( approximately ).

This can support a lot of conjecture. Perhaps officer Wilson fired an initial volley at Mr. Brown that mostly missed, but caused Mr. Brown to hesitate briefly, so the policeman stopped firing for two and a half seconds. Then Mr. Brown continued to move towards the officer causing him to begin firing again until Mr. Brown was thoroughly stopped.

I have no idea that is what happened, but it is consistent with the audio.
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The shots heard in the audio cover a time of about 6 seconds...

I wouldn't want anyone to go ballistic over a discrepancy of that magnitude.....
 
Jim_MDP said:
Hey Aber,

First, you're ascribing to me the claim of "charging" which I don't believe I've used in this thread. I've tried to stay neutral so far, unlike Ginger who twice has hand waved away my thought that Brown may have been looking down at his arm, without my taking a position on his "position". :mad:

Second... you seem to have included a pause or two in your scenario which is not borne out by the audio (still to be verified). There's no gap which would allow what you ascribe to Wilson's thought process at the end. You don't change "point of aim" that way.

Sidenote...
When the audio went public a day ago, I happened to be in the thread and at first thought 6+5, and minutes later revised that to 6+4 (since confirmed it seems, tinnitus ain't that bad I guess :p ) but I still run scenarios to see what might fit. Wish we had audio that included that described "shot in the car".

edit - I didn't put that "mad face" smiley at the top and it doesn't show in my edit window. Sorry Aber, it's not meant for you and I can't seem to edit it out. :(
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I wasn't trying to ascribe anything to you - apologies.

There were pauses, even if not very long, compared to the rapid initial volley. Any evidence of what Brown or Wilson said at that time will be very important.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Funny how you ignore the entirety of the evidence and cherry pick what fits your POV.

Hint: Witnesses, autopsy, audio recording.
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That's what the pathologist said, which is contrary to your armchair analysis of bullet trajectory, Dr Ginger. He said it can go either way. Yet you conveniently ignore that in every one of your posts where you think you have "proven" that Brown was surrendering when he was shot in the head (ignoring pesky things like bullet ricochet as well).

The audio recording has not been verified as a recording of Michael Brown's shooting (could be of another shooting that occurred in the area or not even a shooting at all), so it does not count as evidence of anything at this point. All Brown's camp have are witnesses. Wilson is also a witness, who according to the police chief was treated at a hospital for being punched in the face by Brown. I'm still going to give the benefit of the doubt to the cop.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
So you are trying to discount this audio as a fake now?

A right wing blog claiming without evidence that Wilson had an orbital fracture, no problem.

But a lawyer coming forward with the background on the audio and a report it is now in the hands of the FBI, that, you question is a fake.

:rolleyes:
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The washington post is a right wing blog ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...cuffle-with-michael-brown-family-friend-says/
The officer who fatally shot an unarmed Ferguson youth suffered a fracture to his eye bone in a scuffle with Michael Brown, according to a family friend.

The hospital X-rays of the injury have been submitted to the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney, and will be shared with a grand jury now weighing evidence to determine if Officer Darren Wilson should be charged in the shooting.


And you should probably re-read the post. Nowhere was he trying to discount the audio as fake that I could tell.

Skeptic Ginger said:
<snip>
Could things turn out to not be what they seem? Sure. Will they? I doubt it. There are now 3 witnesses, an autopsy and an audio recording of the shooting that all correlate.

Will Wilson get off anyway? Now that is unfortunately all too likely.
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Why, with all the evidence above, do you believe he will "get off" ?
 
Distracted1 said:
You have experience with fighting. Tell me, would you ever entangle yourself with someone who clearly has a gun on his hip and not go for the gun? I can't see myself wrestling around with someone, waiting for him to pull the gun. I am gonna try for it as soon as I am able.

EDIT. Not necessarily to use it on him, but to make sure he definitely doesn't use it on me.
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I've been in fights, yes. I've also been roughed up by a cop. In the former case, yes. In the latter case, no way would I have gone for his gun.
 
Distracted1 said:
You have experience with fighting. Tell me, would you ever entangle yourself with someone who clearly has a gun on his hip and not go for the gun? I can't see myself wrestling around with someone, waiting for him to pull the gun. I am gonna try for it as soon as I am able.

EDIT. Not necessarily to use it on him, but to make sure he definitely doesn't use it on me.
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Cops almost always carry a backup gun...

Should you manage to get his sidearm, he's going to kill you...
 
Mumbles said:
I've been in fights, yes. I've also been roughed up by a cop. In the former case, yes. In the latter case, no way would I have gone for his gun.
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I too have taken an occasional beating ( for "occasional",read "on two separate occasions" ) at the hands of the DPD, difference being that I was never the aggressor in those situations.

If I were going to attack a cop, disarming him would be my top priority.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
It is totally beyond me how you are coming up with the contention that I am claiming the audio is a fake!

Did I confuse you with terms like " amplitude " and " horizontal " ....

You are such an expert on everything.. How about an acoustical analysis that rules out my speculation that the microphone was moved?

Did anyone else think my comments on the recording, insinuated in any way that I think it's a fake?

Anyone?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10190792#post10190792
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Monketey Ghost said:
I thought your post was straightforward.
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Yep, very much so. But then, I guess we're not "experts" in audio analysis, like some posters are.
 
LTC8K6 said:
If you fight with a cop, and take his sidearm from him, he is going to pull out his BUG and kill you.

You would be very lucky if he did not kill you.
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Once I have a weapon too, it becomes a much more even situation.
Might I get killed in that situation? Of course. Am I more likely to survive it if I have a gun? Perhaps.
Why I never made a habit of attacking cops, and why someone who does attack one might be considered deranged enough to pose a threat to the community at large.
 
Distracted1 said:
I too have taken an occasional beating ( for "occasional",read "on two separate occasions" ) at the hands of the DPD, difference being that I was never the aggressor in those situations.

If I were going to attack a cop, disarming him would be my top priority.
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Why would you fight with a cop in the first place? Your previous posts have been mostly good, but you are DEAD WRONG with this attitude. Trying to get a sidearm from either a cop or a civilian who's carrying is the surest way I know to suicide provided you lose... The vast majority of cops do carry a backup gun along with a very high percentage of civilians who do the same.. I carry and I also have pepper/tear gas spray along with a backup. If you try to take any of those from me, you'd better be successful the first time you try...
 
Reheat said:
Why would you fight with a cop in the first place? Your previous posts have been mostly good, but you are DEAD WRONG with this attitude. Trying to get a sidearm from either a cop or a civilian who's carrying is the surest way I know to suicide provided you lose... The vast majority of cops do carry a backup gun along with a very high percentage of civilians who do the same.. I carry and I also have pepper/tear gas spray along with a backup. If you try to take any of those from me, you'd better be successful the first time you try...
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I would not. My reaction to getting hit by an officer was to drop and take it. I was even smart enough to not try running off.
Someone crazy enough, or stupid enough, to attack a policeman is a seriously dangerous person.

Edit. I actually had a beating coming, and was glad in the end that I was not arrested instead, spending the night in a Detroit lockup was way scarier to me than any cop.
 
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Distracted1 said:
I would not. My reaction to getting hit by an officer was to drop and take it. I was even smart enough to not try running off.
Someone crazy enough, or stupid enough, to attack a policeman is a seriously dangerous person.

Edit. I actually had a beating coming, and was glad in the end that I was not arrested instead, spending the night in a Detroit lockup was way scarier to me than any cop.
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That is the proper attitude and course of action. I'm in a situation regarding a lawsuit that a cop from a nearby County would likely do me in if he had the chance. I won't give him that opportunity by avoiding exposure. I will not go anywhere near that County without someone else along, more than one if possible. Even, if you win in an deadly encounter with a Law Enforcement Official it's likely that you'll spend a good portion of your life regretting it... So, the best course of action is to avoid confrontation and comply just like Michael Brown should have done. If it's unjust there are other courses of action that can and should be pursued...
 
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