Michael Brown Shooting

[Wolrab]

But there are reports "out there" already. There are reports that he suffered an orbital fracture, and there are reports he did not. I'm so confused.

They wouldn't be official reports, i.e. actual x-ray reports. Any of the medical releases seem to have been from "sources", probably friends, family, ...hearsay.

 

[Wolrab]

Thanks for your input. For a moment, I thought we might know each other. I know someone who's daughter also jumped on a policeman's back once, and you are correct, they do frown on that activity, at least when it's uninvited.
With all that said, it's worth noting, there was another nurse I had in mind.

I can't imagine who you mean...

 

[LTC8K6]

WND also reported a few years ago that:



Not a great source. For anything.

Yes, the story of the eye injury is becoming an epic battle of media reports/sources.

It's almost as if one side says something, then the other side counters it.

This time it's supposedly an SLCPD officer.

If it keeps escalating, someone may leak some proof of their claim.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I didn't realize he was subject to a trial.. You might elaborate how that is possible.. Should be interesting, but you seem very capable of inventing something anyway...

I see. So no trial, just summary execution, and at that point innocent or guilty is no longer relevant.

 

[Kaosium]

Yes, the story of the eye injury is becoming an epic battle of media reports/sources.

It's almost as if one side says something, then the other side counters it.

This time it's supposedly an SLCPD officer.

If it keeps escalating, someone may leak some proof of their claim.

That's what I'm waiting for, until then I'll just sit back and enjoy the festivities.

Got any popcorn?

 

[casebro]

I personally expect more leaks that will back up the justification of the shooting. All to prepare the masses for the no bill finding.

Though a fracture eye bone is only icing on the cake of assaulting an officer.

Critical import will be the number of shots fired (6, all accounted for in the front , so none while fleeing, or 12-14, leaves open the 'shot at him as he fled'. But even that can be justifiable) and whether Brown was moving towards Wilson.

 

[LTC8K6]

On Greta they reported that the issue pistol for FPD is the Sig Sauer P229 in .40 caliber with 12+1 capacity.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Regarding the supposed orbital fracture or lack thereof, seems to me the only way to determine if such a fracture does or does not exist is to examine the police officer's medical x-ray. Would it not be against HIPAA laws to disclose such information without the consent of the patient?

HIPAA does not address the public's right to know with the Freedom of Information Act. Police cannot act in secret in cases like this. HIPAA applies to the health agency's restriction on releasing the information directly. It applies to police not having the right to release your confidential medical information should they have access to it in the course of their duties, like finding out you are mentally ill, they can't then go and release that information without your consent.

But there are many exceptions. I can access confidential medical information without consent related to any exposures to infectious disease my own patients might have had. The diagnosing physician must release specific information about certain exposures.

Assuming Missouri is the same as California:

“It’s very clear under California law, and I would argue under the First Amendment in any court, that the press has standing to ask for grand jury [transcripts] to be unsealed once they become court records,” Seager said.
- See more at: http://www.rcfp.org/secret-justice-...information-and-material#sthash.SUhwhy14.dpuf

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This is his exclusive MSNBC interview from August 12th, it was my understanding he was laying low until then, the piece says he's not even been interviewed by police as of this interview. Do you have any reports of Dorian Johnson before this exclusive MSNBC interview?

The youtube was posted on August 10th.

I saw Johnson on the news the day of the shooting. That might be an exclusive sit down interview, he made those with his lawyer after the shooting.

 

[LTC8K6]

I saw Johnson on the news the day of the shooting. That might be an exclusive sit down interview, he made those with his lawyer after the shooting.

That's definitely just after the shooting that day.
I hope it's not too different from what he said in his official statement.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So if you don't think it's excusable then why do you keep attempting to excuse it? You have continually tried to argue that even though the video clearly shows what is legally defined as a strongarm robbery that's it's just a minor theft and shove of the store clerk.

It was a minor theft and shove. How does that excuse it?


Wait, never mind. Why am I bothering?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

ABC and Fox say "yea" and CNN says "nay." The extent of Wilson's injuries would paint a better picture of the pre-shooting scuffle. I suppose it depends on where their source is, who is privy to the details. So, join the club!

Funny, stuff that made Brown look bad (the pot and the robbery) were readily released by the Ferguson police. You'd think they'd also release information like a serious injury if they had such information to release.


And yet they haven't.

 

[LTC8K6]

Funny, stuff that made Brown look bad (the pot and the robbery) were readily released by the Ferguson police. You'd think they'd also release information like a serious injury if they had such information to release.


And yet they haven't.

I'm going to guess that there is no way we will get through to mid-October without a major leak/release of info.

 

[theprestige]

It was a minor theft and shove. How does that excuse it?


Wait, never mind. Why am I bothering?: rolleyes :

I assume you're bothering because you really, truly believe it's a mistake to consider Brown's behavior in the store in the context of this case. And you really, truly believe that if you keep making the arguments you believe in, you may convince, if not the hecklers, at least the lurkers that you hope are reading this thread and looking for good sound reasoning on the subject.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's definitely just after the shooting that day.
I hope it's not too different from what he said in his official statement.

Pretty much it's not different. When he was formally interviewed with his lawyer he admitted to the robbery. Keep in mind in that store video, Brown gives Johnson a pack of the cigarillos and Johnson put it back on the store counter, refusing to take it.

There's another right wing blogosphere claim out there Johnson changed his story. Near as I can tell, it's an outright lie. But that hasn't stopped it being repeated in the echo chamber.

 

[Distracted1]

We can hope.

If there is a clear and convincing case supporting Wilson, it would be acceptable. But if the evidence looks equivocal, or ambiguous, or it looks like Brown was giving up when shot, and they let Wilson off, it'll be bad news.

You do realize that a clear and coherent case supporting officer Wilson is not required to convict him of a crime, don't you?
Would you have our justice system work some other way when dealing with a "typical cop"?

 

[Kaosium]

I saw Johnson on the news the day of the shooting. That might be an exclusive sit down interview, he made those with his lawyer after the shooting.

Thank you for the correction, I didn't start following this until the thread started. That of course explains how the guy in the video would have access to the info regarding the officer stopping them, but not how he knew all about the Ferguson Market and what happened there when it hadn't been reported and wouldn't hit the established outlets until the 15th.

 

[LTC8K6]

Pretty much it's not different. When he was formally interviewed with his lawyer he admitted to the robbery. Keep in mind in that store video, Brown gives Johnson a pack of the cigarillos and Johnson put it back on the store counter, refusing to take it.

There's another right wing blogosphere claim out there Johnson changed his story. Near as I can tell, it's an outright lie. But that hasn't stopped it being repeated in the echo chamber.

Putting the box back could simply be because they were the wrong kind of cigars...

We have no idea what he said to the police as far as I know.

Talking to the media first was a very bad idea, especially if he witnessed a murder. It could easily cause his testimony to be discounted if there are differences.

 

[Dumb All Over]

HIPAA does not address the public's right to know with the Freedom of Information Act.

That is interesting. Which would take precedent then? HIPAA laws or FOIA laws? Actually, I think I can answer that myself. If something is disseminated through a lawful FOIA request, then I guess the proverbial cat would be out of the bag at that point.

Police cannot act in secret in cases like this.

Why not?

HIPAA applies to the health agency's restriction on releasing the information directly. It applies to police not having the right to release your confidential medical information should they have access to it in the course of their duties, like finding out you are mentally ill, they can't then go and release that information without your consent.

Why is this case different? Do the police have the right to disclose the officer's medical condition absent a FOIA request?

But there are many exceptions. I can access confidential medical information without consent related to any exposures to infectious disease my own patients might have had. The diagnosing physician must release specific information about certain exposures.

I suppose all of this is true, but I would guess you or the physician do not have the right to disclose the identity of the patient. That would be a HIPAA violation, would it not?

 

[Giz]

We can hope.

If there is a clear and convincing case supporting Wilson, it would be acceptable. But if the evidence looks equivocal, or ambiguous, or it looks like Brown was giving up when shot, and they let Wilson off, it'll be bad news.

"Innocent until proven guilty". Anyone? Bueller?