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Michael Brown Shooting

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Dumb All Over said:
That is interesting. Which would take precedent then? HIPAA laws or FOIA laws? Actually, I think I can answer that myself. If something is disseminated through a lawful FOIA request, then I guess the proverbial cat would be out of the bag at that point. Why not? Why is this case different? Do the police have the right to disclose the officer's medical condition absent a FOIA request?

I suppose all of this is true, but I would guess you or the physician do not have the right to disclose the identity of the patient. That would be a HIPAA violation, would it not?
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In this case it's not so much what takes precedent as it is which laws apply in which situations. And some laws are federal, some are state laws.

Public health laws do take precedence when it comes to HIPAA. Preventing the spread of infection trumps medical confidentiality.

Believe it or not, if a person who is technically under arrest in this state is admitted from the ED where the police took the person to a mental hospital, the hospital is not allowed to say the patient was admitted. But that's with patients when the police aren't that interested in the charges. I'm sure if it was murder or something they wouldn't leave the patient unattended by an officer.

Now the information, in this case the medical information about Wilson's injuries is presented to the Grand Jury or otherwise enters the court system.

Now it is not just medical information, it is evidence in a case. New laws apply.

If I received a court order to release information I would be obligated to.
 
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Giz said:
"Innocent until proven guilty". Anyone? Bueller?
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So we should all pretend we don't have an opinion based on the evidence we do have?

I don't see the forum members who are concluding Brown was a thug who surely attacked Wilson withholding their opinions, do you?
 
pakeha said:
We can put the story to rest that Brown's corpse was left unattended for hours on the street after the shooting.
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"Unattended" depends on context.

Someone confirmed Brown was dead. No one made any effort to resuscitate him and I'm not sure what they based that decision on. Perhaps the head wound was so obviously devastating there was no reason to try.

I'm used to the King County Medics and they typically do everything for a trauma victim unless they see lividity and/or rigor mortis. But I hesitate to second guess the decisions not to administer CPR. His head wound was not survivable according to the autopsy.

But what people are talking about is not that the body was unattended for hours, what the complaint was, was that the body was left an unnecessarily long time on the street before it was removed.
 
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Upchurch said:
Shouldn't we wait to hear Wilson's version first hand? Not to mention, and more importantly, the physical evidence?
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Sure. I've said more than once that when new evidence is revealed I'm more than willing to reassess my current position.

But like I said earlier, I don't see the "Brown was a thug who attacked a cop" crowd withholding judgement. They've even bought the completely non-evidence based claims that Wilson was seriously injured.
 
Kaosium said:
My suspicion is that the 'tale grew in the telling of it' which is hardly uncommon, in fact probably more common than stories being repeated (more or less) verbatim. So let's say this guy is either at the Ferguson Market and/or he knows Dorian Johnson and got the first--accurate--part of the story from him. Possibly he's a witness to part of the incident too, who knows?

However think about Dorian Johnson's story, after the gun goes off (by the door) he ducks and covers and at that point probably can't see what's going on as he's ducking and covering and all. Then he has Big Mike telling him to run--to get out of there--and if Josie's account is correct Big Mike starts yelling at Officer Wilson too. So Dorian runs, and he's not seeing what really went on, maybe looks over his shoulder at some point. Perhaps he looks back after all the gunfire and sees Michael Brown who has slumped to his knees and then to the ground or something.

So how does Dorian Johnson tell guys like that one in the video anything bad about Michael Brown, who from his standpoint just took a half dozen bullets so he could get away? How could he? He may very think something like what he said happened, he just didn't see a lot of it because he was scared, ducking, covering and running. He tells the story to the guy in the video who makes his own additions.
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I think this is an excellent theory.

Now that we know Dorian's story was out on day 1, the YouTube guy's execution story is even more puzzling, when coupled with his accurate telling of the robbery story. Oh well, maybe we can find something to go with it, but not tonight. I wonder if he got any money from Minute Maid for the product placement? :)

BTW, I found it fascinating when he said Michael was a very respectful guy who would knock on the door, then back up to give whoever opened the door some space. It makes me wonder if he really was a "gentle giant" who had something happen in his life to make him just not care anymore. Actually, I've wondered about that all along, like maybe a girlfriend broke up with him recently - something like that. I think Crump will have that all buttoned down, though.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
But what people are talking about is not that the body was unattended for hours, what the complaint was, was that the body was left an unnecessarily long time on the street before it was removed.
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Once death is declared, the body becomes custody of the ME. It has to remain in place. Certainly you can see the potential conflict in FPD removing or repositioning the body, right?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Well, the circus continues unabated.

http://gotnews.com/sued-st-louis-county-court-get-michael-browns-juvenile-arrest-records/



Claims of a substantial juvy record including a murder 2 charge...
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That would certainly knock down the "gentle giant" theory. How would gotnews (never heard of it) be able to confirm a murder 2 charge if the juvenile records are sealed?

I wonder if the hat on the ground next to the cone is the Crips' color? I read a Texas Monthly article on MS13 not too long ago, and in their world wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood can get one severely beaten or even killed.
 
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GWCarver said:
That would certainly knock down the "gentle giant" theory. How would gotnews (never heard of it) be able to confirm a murder 2 charge if the juvenile records are sealed?

I wonder if the hat on the ground next to the cone is the Crips' color? I read a Texas Monthly article on MS13 not too long ago, and in their world wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood can get one severely beaten or even killed.
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The suit is to unseal the records. Why it asks for a jury trial is beyond me.

He says in the suit that LE personnel told him that Brown had a long record.

I think it's ridiculous, but there it is.

Posts were going around a while ago listing the criminal records of Michael Brown, but it was not the same person.
 
GWCarver said:
I think this is an excellent theory.

Now that we know Dorian's story was out on day 1, the YouTube guy's execution story is even more puzzling, when coupled with his accurate telling of the robbery story. Oh well, maybe we can find something to go with it, but not tonight. I wonder if he got any money from Minute Maid for the product placement? :)
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Yeah, now that we know he's saying that after the clip that SG posted he's basically contradicting Dorian Jackson's story of the shooting part, but he has all the Ferguson Market part right, five days before it was made public with the release of the CCTV camera video. I wonder how it came about that he knew Ferguson Market hadn't called police? A good guess, or did he go ask them nicely?



BTW, I found it fascinating when he said Michael was a very respectful guy who would knock on the door, then back up to give whoever opened the door some space. It makes me wonder if he really was a "gentle giant" who had something happen in his life to make him just not care anymore. Actually, I've wondered about that all along, like maybe a girlfriend broke up with him recently - something like that. I think Crump will have that all buttoned down, though.
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Maybe he just wasn't himself that day? Who knows why, though something may come out of course. His behavior at the Ferguson Market was odd.
 
GWCarver said:
That would certainly knock down the "gentle giant" theory. How would gotnews (never heard of it) be able to confirm a murder 2 charge if the juvenile records are sealed?

I wonder if the hat on the ground next to the cone is the Crips' color? I read a Texas Monthly article on MS13 not too long ago, and in their world wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood can get one severely beaten or even killed.
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It's a Cardinals hat, that's St. Louis colors.
 
Kestrel said:
The great myth of crime dramas is that any small discrepancy in two witness accounts is proof that at least one is a liar. But reality is that we reconstruct most of the details of an event when we recall a memory. Stage an event in front of 10 people and you will get 10 versions of exactly what happened.
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I would change that to "you will get at least 10 versions of what happened."


................
ETA
And if you put all ten of those people on a message board you'd have 35 pages of arguing in the first two days.
 
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KatieG said:
His body was left on the street for hours, blanket or no blanket. That was one of the things that outraged so many people.
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Ah, well, earlier you were claiming that the EMTs could not check him out. Now that we found they did, the problem is that his lifeless corpse lay there too long? It's called preserving the crime scene.
 
GWCarver said:
I wonder if the hat on the ground next to the cone is the Crips' color? I read a Texas Monthly article on MS13 not too long ago, and in their world wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood can get one severely beaten or even killed.
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:wackyno:
 
LTC8K6 said:
http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/officials-brace-ferguson-for-exoneration-of-officer/
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A copper coming out in support of a colleague. What a surprise. :rolleyes:

I worked for Victoria Police for 7 years - no hick operation, in fact one if the largest in the world, with about 13,000 sworn members. I seriously lost count of the number of senior police (Inspector and above) who boasted of their successful efforts in getting colleagues off charges. One memorably instance was when a Senior Inspector told me, over a beer, how hard he had to work to get a Constable off a serious assault charge "the toughest one I've done" was his comment.

So to you "True Skeptics" here, ignore comments from anonymous, off the record police colleagues.
 
LTC8K6 said:
On Greta they reported that the issue pistol for FPD is the Sig Sauer P229 in .40 caliber with 12+1 capacity.
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That Sig Sauer is a really solid, but for the caliber, easy weapon to fire. I had no trouble hitting a target with that.

Skeptic Ginger said:
Funny, stuff that made Brown look bad (the pot and the robbery) were readily released by the Ferguson police. You'd think they'd also release information like a serious injury if they had such information to release.

And yet they haven't.
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I'm still undecided...but have they released toxicology reports from Brown? I thought those were just rumors that he had pot in his system. I'll wait for an official release.

LTC8K6 said:
Well, the circus continues unabated.

http://gotnews.com/sued-st-louis-county-court-get-michael-browns-juvenile-arrest-records/

Claims of a substantial juvy record including a murder 2 charge...
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Mum is the word from Brown's family in regards to his prior arrest record...and this site looks "Gateway Shady" if you ask me. I'd be interested to see what the record holds, however. Why aren't the records immediately unsealed upon death?

GWCarver said:
That would certainly knock down the "gentle giant" theory. How would gotnews (never heard of it) be able to confirm a murder 2 charge if the juvenile records are sealed?

I wonder if the hat on the ground next to the cone is the Crips' color? I read a Texas Monthly article on MS13 not too long ago, and in their world wearing the wrong colors in the wrong neighborhood can get one severely beaten or even killed.
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Their world is ours, don't forget that. I'm going to withhold judgment whether or not Brown was a gang member, maybe he quit before he was to attend college. Gang affiliation doesn't have much to do with being shot while unarmed by a police officer. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I think we have bigger fish to fry here, believe you me.
 
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