• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Michael Brown Shooting

Status
Not open for further replies.
davefoc said:
I've been over at DailyKos reading the comments. Wilson better hope those guys aren't on the jury. The narrative over there is consistent. All the available facts fit the narrative that Wilson blasted away without a justifiable reason and for some of the posters he blasted away without any reason at all.

I think this situation has become horribly politicized and the left wing is attempting to abuse the tragedy with the same intensity that the right wing abused the Benghazi tragedy.

There is some difference here. It appears that it is possible to prove that the Benghazi scandal was manufactured out of nothing but a tragic incident. Here the facts are still not knowable and may never be. But a great deal of information that will allow a reasoned review of the incident has just not been released and thus for the average person following this case there is no evidence based conclusion possible.

As to the eyewitnesses, obviously Dorian Johnson has no credibility. He is a criminal with a history of lying to the police with a vested interest in pitching a self serving story even if that story is guaranteed to inflame the community. As to the other eyewitnesses: Where were they when the incident happened? Are there factors in their lives which suggest they are credible or not credible? What was said most contemporaneously with the incident? How do the various stories stack up with the autopsy and the crime scene as it was found?

The fact is that some people are particularly willing to tell a story that supports the group narrative. It is difficult to evaluate the likelihood of that until we can begin to assess the various factors that support or detract from the witnesses' credibility.
Click to expand...

THis goes for both sides.
Sad thing is some issues like Police Miltrarization are going to be lost in the partisan shuffle.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Only a reported swollen face and the video showing Wilson at the scene, pacing back and forth. At no time does he reach for his eye or show any evidence of being seriously injured.

But lets keep running with the severely beaten nearly unconscious with an eye socket fracture. It sounds so ... right.:rolleyes:
As for having to go to the hospital, that's standard procedure for cops with just about any on the job injury.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the eye-roll (although you seem incapable of posting without it) ... but I never said anything about "severely beaten nearly unconscious" so you can just take your straw somewhere else.

You already have claimed you have proven any severe injury to be a hoax, so you can probably just sit back and wait to see if you are indeed correct.
 
Unabogie said:
Wow, FPD released their "incident report" and it's, well, blank.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-shooting-police-report

Not hyperbole, blank, but they provided zero details about an incident in which someone died, blank. In contrast, the incident report for Michael Brown's alleged robbery of the cigars is 18 pages long.
Click to expand...

Reading for comprehension is important:

The St. Louis County police, which has been the lead investigative agency, released their report
ETA: yes, I should read better ... I see there is the FPD report under the St Louis county one. That's what I get for being snarky. DOH
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Only a reported swollen face and the video showing Wilson at the scene, pacing back and forth. At no time does he reach for his eye or show any evidence of being seriously injured.

But lets keep running with the severely beaten nearly unconscious with an eye socket fracture. It sounds so ... right.:rolleyes:

As for having to go to the hospital, that's standard procedure for cops with just about any on the job injury.
Click to expand...

Wilson isn't on camera for very long at all in any of the Piaget videos I can find.

Is there an unedited video out there?
 
Monketey Ghost said:
Why would he rob a convenience store? Who knows.
Click to expand...
"Who knows" is a good question. What evidence do we have that he ran at him? And is running at somebody an excuse to shoot them? If somebody runs towards me in a "threatening manner", could I just gun them down and get away with it? Brown was unarmed. Nobody's arguing with that, as far as I know. So, when is it okay to gun down an unarmed man? If they approach you in a "threatening manner"?

Also, what evidence do we have that he robbed a convenience store? And how is that relevant? Is robbing a store a good reason for a cop to shoot somebody? I hope not!
 
newyorkguy said:
Let's cut to the chase: you're implying I made this whole thing up, correct? May I ask why you think that?
Click to expand...

Where did that come from?!

There are thousands or tens of thousands of JREF threads in which one person describes an event and a different person asks for a citation.

Asking for a documented source is not an accusation of deceit. Asking for a documented source is one of the cornerstones of skepticism. There are easily a dozen reasons, other than accusing a person of lying, for asking for a citation.
 
Unabogie said:
Wow, FPD released their "incident report" and it's, well, blank.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-shooting-police-report

Not hyperbole, blank, but they provided zero details about an incident in which someone died, blank. In contrast, the incident report for Michael Brown's alleged robbery of the cigars is 18 pages long.
Click to expand...

So it appears that SLCPD has been called within 40 minutes of the shooting to take over because an FPD officer is involved.
 
dudalb said:
THis goes for both sides.
Sad thing is some issues like Police Miltrarization are going to be lost in the partisan shuffle.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but I was thinking one thing to come out of this will be a thorough review of what kinds of police response are appropriate to what kinds of disturbances. Clearly the police have received a lot of criticism and it looks like much of the criticism has been justified. It seems like a difficult issue to me.

During periods of civil unrest police control demonstrations by inflicting fear and pain on the crowd. That is just the way it is. The police can't arrest everybody and fear and pain is pretty much the only mechanism to control an unruly crowd. Take that away and the crowd gets out of control and destroys property and can become dangerous to people. Many years ago the police pulled back from controlling riots in Westwood after they had been accused of excesses previously. Westwood burned.

On the other hand, peaceful demonstrations need to be left alone in a free society. It is a legitimate way for people to express their displeasure with their governance. So how do police balance this. I don't know but it looks to me like the Ferguson police struck the wrong balance.

As an aside, this incident reminded me of my own encounter with police brutality. I was attending UCLA during the riots over the Vietnam war. I didn't take part. I was getting on my motorcycle to go home when a cop glowered at me. I was well out of any area where the confrontations had been. I glowered back. That set the guy off and he came over and assaulted me with his baton. The only result was to knock the books out of my hands. He walked away and I got on my motorcycle and went home. I thought about writing to the police or the newspaper about the incident. I never did. Years later, my much younger brother in law was attending UCLA and I picked up a copy of the Daily Bruin and there was a story that described my incident on that day. Interesting coincidence that I should happen to pick up a copy of the Daily Bruin about twenty years after the incident and read that article.

Anyway, what to make of my incident? For one thing police that are being cursed and yelled at by crowds are probably not in a good mood and it doesn't take much to set them off. I suppose society needs to work very hard to control the police in this situation but I suspect that given police are human, society will never be able to control this kind of thing very well.
 
Last edited:
Skeptic Ginger said:
Only a reported swollen face and the video showing Wilson at the scene, pacing back and forth. At no time does he reach for his eye or show any evidence of being seriously injured.

But lets keep running with the severely beaten nearly unconscious with an eye socket fracture. It sounds so ... right.:rolleyes:

As for having to go to the hospital, that's standard procedure for cops with just about any on the job injury.
Click to expand...

How about this.

You can accept that there is nothing you can do or say to convince other people in this thread about the possible extent of any damage until the official report is released. Accusing people of forgetting the most basic elements of skepticism will not get them to change their minds. Likening them to Bigfoot believers will not get them to change their minds. Telling them to watch the video will not get them to change their minds.

We could just all agree that that point of contention CANNOT be resolved to everyone's satisfaction until the official repot is released. We could just let it go.
 
Looking back through the earlier document release, here's the initial disturbance dispatch narrative for the Brown shooting:

picture.php


As reported, the original EMS dispatch was in response to a sick person call. It at least seems at first glance that they spent the better part of two hours on that call.

12:04 - EMS contacted
12:16 - Officer on scene
14:11 - Shots on Canefield
14:12 - 4-6 shots
14:14 - EMS staging
14:14 - EMS staging until further notice
14:30 - Call a ride has been notified?

What's interesting there is the 4-6 shots. Presumably those are the fatal volley.
 
lobosrul said:
The DoJ does have the authority to investigate local law enforcement agencies. They certainly don't look at every single shooting, as the UK does (apparently).

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...tigations-into-police-departments-nationwide/

I'm also not exactly sure what powers they wield in those cases. Whether they can disband a police force, or prosecute any police officer in said force.
Click to expand...


We had a town here in NC a few years ago get its police dept. shut down for corruption above and beyond the call of duty, but it was the county the town was in that did it. (They did get some help from the SBI.)

Took 'em years to do it, though.
 
Unabogie said:
Wow, FPD released their "incident report" and it's, well, blank.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/michael-brown-shooting-police-report

Not hyperbole, blank, but they provided zero details about an incident in which someone died, blank. In contrast, the incident report for Michael Brown's alleged robbery of the cigars is 18 pages long.
Click to expand...

Yeah, whatever is on the FPD report is redacted, but we do see Copper Creek Ct, which is a road that intersects Canfield drive near the 2947 Canfield Dr address on the SLCPD report.

So, who was on Copper Creek Court?

The FPD dispatch appears to be to a Copper Creek Court address, with Canfield Drive as a secondary location?
 
LTC8K6 said:
Well, I am on the side of not charging Wilson, or charging him with much less than a murder charge.

I believe he will be charged with murder due to political pressure, though.

le.
Click to expand...

Is your belief strong enough that you would bet on it? Money? Avatar? Something else?
 
Cylinder said:
Looking back through the earlier document release, here's the initial disturbance dispatch narrative for the Brown shooting:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9010[/qimg]

As reported, the original EMS dispatch was in response to a sick person call. It at least seems at first glance that they spent the better part of two hours on that call.

12:04 - EMS contacted
12:16 - Officer on scene
14:11 - Shots on Canefield
14:12 - 4-6 shots
14:14 - EMS staging
14:14 - EMS staging until further notice
14:30 - Call a ride has been notified?

What's interesting there is the 4-6 shots. Presumably those are the fatal volley.
Click to expand...

So that indicates that someone on the scene reported 4-6 shots were fired, and it was reported ~2 hours later?

Why wouldn't they have counted empties by then?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom