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Michael Brown Shooting

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Kaosium said:
Noted.



The ones that are sometimes called 'black block' (not in reference to race) anarchists?

Or perhaps the New Black Panthers who've been seen there?

Coordinated activities of this nature are troubling.
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That is all we need, Urban Guerilla Warfate. We have not seen that in this country since the good old days of the S.L.A.
 
A bit more unofficial detail on Wilson's narrative:

According to the account on KTFK, phoned in by a woman who identified herself as "Josie," the altercation began after Officer Darren Wilson rolled down his window to tell Brown and a friend to stop walking in the street.

When Wilson tried to get out of his cruiser, Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said.

Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.

Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, the caller said.

A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation later told CNN the caller's account is "accurate," in that it matches what Wilson has told investigators.
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dudalb said:
If Wilson walks,it is not going to be pretty out on the streets.

Look, if the evidence points to a justified shooting, then Wilson should walk, regardless of cosqeuences. I believe that "Let Justice Be Done, Though The SKies Fall" (a slogan that is inscribed on the Supreme Court Building in DC) in the end, is better then a deliberate injustice done just to keep things quiet.
But I am also aware that,given this case has already dwarfed Zimmerman in terms of publicity I don't think we will be spared the Rodney King experience if he walks. I would love to be proven wrong on this.
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You won't be.
 
Ladewig said:
If a perp assaults an officer, tries to get his gun, and manages to get 30 feet away from the officer and is not armed with a gun or knife, then I believe he should expect to live. Even if he is running away so fast that the cop could not reasonably expect to catch him, I believe it is wrong to shoot that person while he is running away DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that that is what happened in Missouri. I am merely responding to a proposed hypothetical.
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That's basically what in enshrined in law. Officers can shoot a fleeing suspect who's running back to their kidnap victim. They can shoot a fleeing suspect who stole their gun for fear of them using it on someone. They can shoot a fleeing suspect who's wearing a backpack bomb, etc...

Wilson's narrative, as far as it's been gleaned, doesn't include any of these claims.
 
Would the police have access to and training with "non" lethal weapons like tazers or pepper sprays? If so, I would have thought that they would have been more appropriate for such a situation.
 
Distracted1 said:
How someone runs at another person they intend to tackle, or run through.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130805070653-art-donovan-restricted-horizontal-gallery.jpg

Silly looking image, I know. There are others that demonstrate the position of the body during a charge more clearly, but they all seemed to be prejudicial in nature.
As this man runs towards the camera, the top of his head is completely exposed.
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Good point.. Without knowing the trajectory, there could have been a lot of face visible with an ' apex ' of the head entry wound..

Ginger would have us believe the head was bowed in prayer...
 
Cylinder said:
A bit more unofficial detail on Wilson's narrative:
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"Punched him in the face".

Interesting. And that caused damage on Wilson's face but not on Brown's fist?

If that's in Wilson's report, he better be hoping the county autopsy found more on Brown's knuckles than Baden found.

But that's not going to be much help with this part:
Wilson pursued Brown and his friend, ordering them to freeze, according to the account. When they turned around, Brown began taunting Wilson, saying he would not arrest them, then ran at the officer at full speed, the caller said.

Wilson then began shooting. The final shot was to Brown's forehead, and the teenager fell two or three feet in front of Wilson, the caller said.
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The final shot wasn't the 'forehead' it was the top of the head.

No mention of the head down in the "ran at him".
 
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In other words, not whether or not he shot in self-defence, but whether a gun should be the first weapon for self-defence when facing even a large unarmed person.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
"Punched him in the face".

Interesting. And that caused damage on Wilson's face but not on Brown's fist?

If that's in Wilson's report, he better be hoping the county autopsy found more on Brown's knuckles than Baden found.
But that's not going to be much help with this part:The final shot wasn't the 'forehead' it was the top of the head.

No mention of the head down in the "ran at him".
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I don't recall any comments or questions being asked about the fist/hand, in that context at least. Did you?
 
Mike! said:
I don't recall any comments or questions being asked about the fist/hand, in that context at least. Did you?
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Did you bother to look?
Brown first tried to push the officer back into the car, then punched him in the face and grabbed for his gun before breaking free after the gun went off once, the caller said.
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If you are talking about Baden, yes he did. He specifically answered the question about evidence of any altercation and his reply was "none".
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
If that's in Wilson's report, he better be hoping the county autopsy found more on Brown's knuckles than Baden found.
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Wilson's medical report will detail Wilson's injury. It's not required that Brown have Wilson's blood on him, or macroscopic injuries to the hand. We're not going to go through this self-inflicted injury crap again -- not gracefully at least.
 
Does it honestly matter to those that have already made up their minds what Wilson's account is? It won't be believed or will be hand-waved away, as is already occurring.
 
Blood spatter on the street, farther from the car than the body, would indicate Brown was advancing towards Wilson. And would put the lie to LOTS of eyewitness accounts.

But head bowed in prayer sounds plausible too. :)
 
Lerxst said:
Does it honestly matter to those that have already made up their minds what Wilson's account is? It won't be believed or will be hand-waved away, as is already occurring.
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It matters in that is has to be evaluated. His narrative taken at face value seems to support a reasonable use of force, both in a criminal sense and in a police response sense.

There's the level of Wilson as a potential criminal defendant. There's a level of even if Wilson did not commit a crime was it a legitimate use or display of the power we give to government.
 
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