Michael Brown Shooting

[I Am The Scum]

So, what would happen in Ferguson if the reports show that Brown had a gun?

Obviously such reports would not be believed.

I'm guessing that rioting reaches a new level.

EDIT: I should modify that to just exonerating the officer, for whatever reason.

The police department has already acknowledged that Brown was unarmed.

In any case, would I believe the same police department that fires teargas on journalists? No, I would not.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Aren't eye witnesses notoriously bad at reporting what they saw and heard? Especially under stress?

They can be. But these three witnesses are telling very similar and have very credible stories. No collusion is apparent, no details they wouldn't be aware of are claimed.

I just re-read Johnson's first interview, linked in the OP.

One question- what ethnicity is the officer?

All three said white.

And Johnson's story doesn't seem to account for the officer having bruises when checked by the medicos. I wonder if Johnson sort of forgot some details?

It's not an issue that Johnson has left out details like Brown getting a punch in. No one is contending that the officer and Brown didn't have some kind of altercation while the officer was still in the car.

Are you claiming that justifies shooting Brown who was fleeing and had turned around with his hands up when more shots were fired?

And where were the witnesses, could they see into the car, whether Brown was grappling at the officer too? Or did they see Browns hands on the outside, trying to keep from getting pulled in? Browns hand prints on the car?

Tiffany Mitchell said she was only 10-20 feet away (that can be verified). She believes Brown's hands were visible outside the vehicle when the first shot was fired. She did not see the beginning of the altercation.

Again, she saw Brown "jerk" when running away. She thinks a shot hit him from the back. That's when she saw Brown turn with his hands up and the officer fired several more shots. That's when Brown went down.

Again, the autopsy will either corroborate this account (which is the same as the other two witness accounts) or it won't. I'm convinced the autopsy will corroborate the three witnesses. If it doesn't, I'll go with the autopsy.

And did the witnesses have time to collude? In a neighbor hood where I bet the cops are used to 'nobody saw nutin', why did a couple somebodies saw anything this time? And Johnson went on home, and didn't talk to the cops for days. I'm not sure of the time line before his first interview. I wonder what his cell phone records show? A call to the Rev. Al?

I wonder if we'll ever find out.

Yes, we will have the autopsy that will reveal a lot. As for these people colluding, you can expect that Johnson is going to say they weren't at fault. You might even expect the first witness to say the same thing as Johnson, given she was a neighbor. But the third witness has no apparent reason to collude.

Unless of course you think every black witness is a liar.

 

[332nd]

I just re-read Johnson's first interview, linked in the OP.

One question- what ethnicity is the officer?

Dunno, it seems we'll find out later today since they are going to release his name. Now then, why does it matter?

And Johnson's story doesn't seem to account for the officer having bruises when checked by the medicos. I wonder if Johnson sort of forgot some details?

Unless you think that its unusual for someone who has been grabbed by the neck & is possibly being choked to fight back in some kind of way, I would say it does account for any bruises.

And where were the witnesses, could they see into the car, whether Brown was grappling at the officer too? Or did they see Browns hands on the outside, trying to keep from getting pulled in? Browns hand prints on the car?

Pushing off against the officer maybe, maybe the car, maybe both.

And did the witnesses have time to collude? In a neighbor hood where I bet the cops are used to 'nobody saw nutin', why did a couple somebodies saw anything this time? And Johnson went on home, and didn't talk to the cops for days. I'm not sure of the time line before his first interview. I wonder what his cell phone records show? A call to the Rev. Al?

I wonder if we'll ever find out.

CT forum is a few up from here.

 

[LTC8K6]

The police department has already acknowledged that Brown was unarmed.

In any case, would I believe the same police department that fires teargas on journalists? No, I would not.

I edited the post to say the reports just exonerated the officer, not that there was a gun.

The reports are not going to come from just the local police.

I give up. I think I'll go and see if a bigfoot threw candy at someone again.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

But I edited the post to remove the weapon, and the edit is in your quote, so you saw it...

To me, a conversation with the media before the reports are finished wouldn't really qualify as an official report on the incident.

You are hypothesizing a scenario not just with no facts in evidence, but inconsistent with anyone's account from the police chief to the 3 witnesses.

What are you basing your imaginary scenario on?

 

[LTC8K6]

You are hypothesizing a scenario not just with no facts in evidence, but inconsistent with anyone's account from the police chief to the 3 witnesses.

What are you basing your imaginary scenario on?

Well, it is a scenario, it necessarily involves imagination...and speculation...and making things up with limited information...and looking forward, etc.

There were many put forward about MH-370, for example.

Anyway, I think I will just go back to imagining what bigfoot witnesses might have seen.

 

[Kaosium]

Well, it is a scenario, it necessarily involves imagination...and speculation...and making things up with limited information...and looking forward, etc.

There were many put forward about MH-370, for example.

Anyway, I think I will just go back to imagining what bigfoot witnesses might have seen.

You can throw the witnesses out completely and the facts that are not in dispute and public already could be made into a murder case. The police car was in the middle of the street, there's was one shot fired from the vehicle, there were 'more than a few' casings recovered and fired from outside the car, there were 'more than a couple' bullets in Michael Brown, around 35 feet away from the vehicle and he was unarmed. The casings came from the officer's gun and they were the only ones found. The most the police have claimed is the officer's face was swollen.

So go ahead and discredit all the witnesses, Dorian Johnson's account more or less precludes deliberation or premeditation, so be careful with that one!

 

[jimbob]

One question- what ethnicity is the officer?

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-missouri-st-louis-police-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1

50 out of the 53 police in Fergusson are white.

Blacks in Ferguson are twice as likely to be stopped by police as whites, according to an annual report on racial profiling by the Missouri attorney general. Last year, 93% of arrests following car stops in Ferguson were of blacks. Ninety-two percent of searches and 80% of car stops involved blacks, the report said.

It looks like institutionalised racism to use the language of the MacPherson Report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence

 

[Monketi Ghost]

If he's been wrong a few times, does that automatically discount all the times he was right and did some good? Would he have to be absolutely perfect with zero mistakes in order to get credit for any good he's done?

If he only apologized as loudly as he cries wolf.

 

[Upchurch]

Meanwhile, Capt. Ron Johnson of the Highway Patrol (maybe one of best names/title combos ever) had the the cops take off the gas masks and went on a walk with some of the protestors. Crazily enough, the non-military approach resulted in a much more peaceful evening in Ferguson.

 

[The Don]

It looks like institutionalised racism to use the language of the MacPherson Report into the murder of Stephen Lawrence

The rationale of stopping and arresting black people more often on the grounds that they are more likely to be stopped or arrested was covered by the Not the None O'clock News team:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

 

[Bikewer]

Missouri has a racial profiling statute and all agencies are required to submit forms on all stops; as to ethnicity, reason for stop, search or no, arrest or no, and others.
All these statistics are compiled annually and published in a report available to the public.

The only adjustment that can be considered is the makeup of the population... In the case of Ferguson, with a predominantly-black population segment, you'd expect a somewhat higher incidence of stops...
But despite this law and the publication of these statistics every year, it's still the case that blacks and other minorities are stopped more often than are whites, and yet when searches are conducted, contraband is more likely to be found in the case of whites.....

 

[12AX7]

And did the witnesses have time to collude? In a neighbor hood where I bet the cops are used to 'nobody saw nutin', why did a couple somebodies saw anything this time?

Have you ever seen a group of people try to get together on a fake story and stick to it?

Any evidence that this is a neighborhood filled with 'nobody saw nutin' types or is that just your blanket stereotype? And by the way, the reason a lot of people (Hint: not just blacks) go with 'nobody saw nutin' is for fear of retribution from gangs, organized crime or <gasp> the police.

Meanwhile, Capt. Ron Johnson of the Highway Patrol (maybe one of best names/title combos ever) had the the cops take off the gas masks and went on a walk with some of the protestors. Crazily enough, the non-military approach resulted in a much more peaceful evening in Ferguson.

I just watched a couple interviews. I really like this Highway Patrol Capt. Ron Johnson. First thing he did was to get rid of the damn military occupation mentality. This guy knows how to handle a situation. Calm, cool, rational.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Aren't eye witnesses notoriously bad at reporting what they saw and heard? Especially under stress?

Only with stories about Bigfoot, UFO's or ghosts.

In this case, they're spot on.

 

[casebro]

Dunno, it seems we'll find out later today since they are going to release his name. Now then, why does it matter?

You can't see that a minority officer involved would put a big dent in the racial overtones of the discussion?

Of course we would still have the Pigs vs the Bros to discuss.

 

[newyorkguy]

There's outrage over this incident, and the response by local police, all across the political spectrum. Even the neocons:

This is a quote from The Cato Institute’s Walter Olson from a piece Senator Rand Paul wrote in Time Magazine:

Why armored vehicles in a Midwestern inner suburb? Why would cops wear camouflage gear against a terrain patterned by convenience stores and beauty parlors? Why are the authorities in Ferguson, Mo. so given to quasi-martial crowd control methods (such as bans on walking on the street) and, per the reporting of Riverfront Times, the firing of tear gas at people in their own yards? (“‘This my property!’ he shouted, prompting police to fire a tear gas canister directly at his face.”) Why would someone identifying himself as an 82nd Airborne Army veteran, observing the Ferguson police scene, comment that “We rolled lighter than that in an actual warzone”? Link

This is from Senator Rand Paul's Time Magazine op-ed essay:

Given the racial disparities in our criminal justice system, it is impossible for African-Americans not to feel like their government is particularly targeting them...It is what the citizens of Ferguson feel when there is an unfortunate and heartbreaking shooting like the incident with Michael Brown...Anyone who thinks that race does not still, even if inadvertently, skew the application of criminal justice in this country is just not paying close enough attention. Our prisons are full of black and brown men and women who are serving inappropriately long and harsh sentences for non-violent mistakes in their youth.

 

[Mike!]

BREAKING NEWS:
There's just been a police press conference, they've released the officers name, AND implicated Michael Brown in a strong arm robbery shortly before the shooting.

Closest link available: http://fox2now.com/2014/08/14/report-police-to-release-name-of-officer-who-shot-mike-brown-friday/

 

[turingtest]

BREAKING NEWS:
There's just been a police press conference, they've released the officers name, AND implicated Michael Brown in a strong arm robbery shortly before the shooting.

Closest link available: http://fox2now.com/2014/08/14/report-police-to-release-name-of-officer-who-shot-mike-brown-friday/

From Yahoo News:

After withholding his name for nearly a week, the Ferguson Police Department on Friday publicly identified the white patrol officer who shot and killed an unarmed black teen.

Chief Thomas Jackson said the officer involved was Darren Wilson, who has been with the department for six years. Chief Jackson said Officer Wilson has had no previous history of disciplinary action.

and

Chief Jackson declined to take reporters' questions at a news conference.

Instead, the chief told reporters that members of his department would be handing out copies of a police report from the robbery of a convenience store that occurred prior to Brown being shot by Wilson. During his prepared remarks, the chief said Wilson first approached Brown because he fit the description of the suspect sought in the store robbery.

 

[Mike!]

Rather than edit the above, let me rephrase that to, Michael Brown MAY have been involved in a strong arm robbery. I watched it live and posted quickly.
My apologies to my JREF friends for being a little keyboard happy.

 

[I Am The Scum]

Wilson first approached Brown because he fit the description of the suspect sought in the store robbery

A phrase many blacks in America have heard before.

After all of this they're still trying to defend the murderer. It's like they desperately needed to give the racists in this country a reason to say, "I knew it!"