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Michael Brown Shooting

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Re-read post #84 and tell me you didn't include Brown and the self defense claims of inherently violent black people.

Ranb
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
My point is police react this way all the time, they need better skills and/or anger management. If you think you have a right to arrest and/or shoot anyone who dares defy you, you shouldn't be a cop because it isn't often necessary to treat people that way.

I've had cops treat me that way when all I was was a bystander who had stopped to help. I stopped for an accident on the freeway. I was not a witness. I had done my duty helping. The cop wanted my driver's license and ordered me to drive off the freeway so he could keep asking me questions after I clearly said I had not seen a thing. I did not deserve to be treated that way.

I drove off with my lights off and got pulled over. I thanked the police and they ignored that and snipped back, "it's against the law". The attitude was completely unnecessary.

My son was attacked when he was about 5 by some irate father in a park. I called the police and when they arrived they acted like I was the criminal until other witnesses came up and confirmed what had happened.

This happens over and over, police are rude and belligerent to everyone as if anyone who speaks to them must be a criminal. They often don't bother with at least a semblance of courtesy.
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Your experience reminds me of one I had many, many years ago, where I was arrested and jailed (with no charges filed) for being near an accident but having nothing to do with it. Although I am withholding judgment in the Brown case until more facts are in, I cannot help but think back to how I was treated for a non-crime by a belligerent cop. It may be endemic to the system.

Oddly enough, my experience was with the -- wait for it -- St. Louis County Police Dept. :eek:
 
Hrm.

Did I miss something or was this Brown kid or his friend Doran (Dorin?) carrying a gun?

Or am I just seeing an example of something from all those threads I've studiously avoided opening the past year or so?
 
Redtail said:
Exactly. It helps the cops, helps the public, saves money, I really can't see a downside to the body cams.
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Only downside I can see affecting their choice to use is it can likely prove when an officer went rogue. especially if an additional something has the footage automatically backed up in hard storage where it takes someone very high up to extract it. And there is no unevident way to extract or destroy it.
 
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Kaosium said:
Hrm.

Did I miss something or was this Brown kid or his friend Doran (Dorin?) carrying a gun?

Or am I just seeing an example of something from all those threads I've studiously avoided opening the past year or so?
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The two young men had no weapons of any kind.
 
ravdin said:
Why are the cops in camouflage? Why the rifles and scopes? Why does a police arsenal in the suburbs need to have mine resistant vehicles?

I lifted this image from Slate, and the article is worth a read. I'm appalled but no longer surprised that this would happen in America. Give cops military uniforms and weapons and they will act like occupying troops instead of defenders of the law.
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You...may prefer not to browse through the following few links...

http://instagram.com/elonjames

http://instagram.com/jbouie

https://vine.co/u/912223639460524032

Or perhaps you do.

Sorry, but while it's true that not *all* police are bad, *these* police are pointing high-powered rifles at peaceful, daytime protesters, from the top of an armored car. That seems pretty ******* bad to me...
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The two young men had no weapons of any kind.
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well, except fists, elbows, teeth, nails, knees.... SG, I'm sure you did an ER rotation and saw injuries caused by most of the weapons I listed.

And I'm not sure of the stats, but nearly as many cops get shot by their own guns as by the perp's gun. It is a real fear. I guess perps are easily tempted by the readily available weapon.

And a bit more pertinent to this case, can a cop sitting in his car reach out and grab somebody by the neck? What kind of car, Crown Vic, or SUV? How tall was our "victim"? It would sure be easier for the cop to grab him if he was leaning into or at least towards, the cop.

hmmm, if there was a resident of that neighborhood, and starting filming when the cop told the fellas to get on the sidewalk, and had pics of the fellas starting the altercation, do you think the videographer will come forward to vindicate the cop? In that neighbor hood? hmmmm. ?

Though half the time, they seem to edit off the first part, and only show the "victim" get shot, not him attacking the cop. Like on the recent incident of the CHP officer collaring the crazy woman on the freeway.
 
casebro said:
well, except fists, elbows, teeth, nails, knees.... SG, I'm sure you did an ER rotation and saw injuries caused by most of the weapons I listed.

And I'm not sure of the stats, but nearly as many cops get shot by their own guns as by the perp's gun. It is a real fear. I guess perps are easily tempted by the readily available weapon.

And a bit more pertinent to this case, can a cop sitting in his car reach out and grab somebody by the neck? What kind of car, Crown Vic, or SUV? How tall was our "victim"? It would sure be easier for the cop to grab him if he was leaning into or at least towards, the cop.

hmmm, if there was a resident of that neighborhood, and starting filming when the cop told the fellas to get on the sidewalk, and had pics of the fellas starting the altercation, do you think the videographer will come forward to vindicate the cop? In that neighbor hood? hmmmm. ?

Though half the time, they seem to edit off the first part, and only show the "victim" get shot, not him attacking the cop. Like on the recent incident of the CHP officer collaring the crazy woman on the freeway.
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Saw an article today with a pic of the woman and her lawyer. As I predicted, she was not taking her prescribed medication.
Cop saved her life and probably stopped a traffic nightmare of people trying to avoid hitting her, but he did throw some pillow-punches and got video'd doing it so no thanks going to him.
 
Unabogie said:
It's not just one witness against the cop, there were multiple witnesses.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/witness-claims-he-saw-what-happened-when-michael-brown-was-shot/
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I just listened to this again and something that didn't register the first time stood out: this guy says that two more police showed up before the final shots were fired. Well, kinda, the newsperson talks over his narrative and says that, then they cut back to him and he continues to the part where Michael was shot, giving the impression there were three police there when the final shots were fired. It's at about 1:15 and can anyone make sense of it?

I know very little of this incident and am going through it right now trying to figure it out, does anyone know if three police being there at the time of the final shooting is corroborated by anything? Is it a stuff up by the news channel or did this witness actually report three police there when the final shots were fired?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The two young men had no weapons of any kind.
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Thank you. As I recall you might know something about this: how long would it take to perform that autopsy, keeping in mind they might want to get a second or third opinion as to ensure that nothing is missed?
 
casebro said:
well, except fists, elbows, teeth, nails, knees.... SG, I'm sure you did an ER rotation and saw injuries caused by most of the weapons I listed.

And I'm not sure of the stats, but nearly as many cops get shot by their own guns as by the perp's gun. It is a real fear. I guess perps are easily tempted by the readily available weapon.

And a bit more pertinent to this case, can a cop sitting in his car reach out and grab somebody by the neck? What kind of car, Crown Vic, or SUV? How tall was our "victim"? It would sure be easier for the cop to grab him if he was leaning into or at least towards, the cop.

hmmm, if there was a resident of that neighborhood, and starting filming when the cop told the fellas to get on the sidewalk, and had pics of the fellas starting the altercation, do you think the videographer will come forward to vindicate the cop? In that neighbor hood? hmmmm. ?

Though half the time, they seem to edit off the first part, and only show the "victim" get shot, not him attacking the cop. Like on the recent incident of the CHP officer collaring the crazy woman on the freeway.
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Crazed perps will attack with anything they have.
 
casebro said:
well, except fists, elbows, teeth, nails, knees.... SG, I'm sure you did an ER rotation and saw injuries caused by most of the weapons I listed.

And I'm not sure of the stats, but nearly as many cops get shot by their own guns as by the perp's gun. It is a real fear. I guess perps are easily tempted by the readily available weapon.

And a bit more pertinent to this case, can a cop sitting in his car reach out and grab somebody by the neck? What kind of car, Crown Vic, or SUV? How tall was our "victim"? It would sure be easier for the cop to grab him if he was leaning into or at least towards, the cop.
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Most have it as a car, this one refers to it as a "truck."

"After telling the officer that they were almost at their destination, Johnson’s house, the two continued walking. But as they did, Johnson says the officer slammed his brakes and threw his truck in reverse, nearly hitting them."​

I'm having trouble visualizing a scenario where the police guy doesn't have the upper hand automatically being armed in a car, any assault initiated by someone from the outside is pretty much doomed to failure. In the event of a struggle he can simply put his foot on the accelerator pedal and push. Just how anyone could think they'd be able to reach into a police car and get the officer's weapon if it's holstered mystifies me.

I do not have the same trouble were the weapon already drawn, in that case I can see how it's plausible someone might go for it....especially if an officer has grabbed them by the neck and then the shirt and said he was going to shoot....

hmmm, if there was a resident of that neighborhood, and starting filming when the cop told the fellas to get on the sidewalk, and had pics of the fellas starting the altercation, do you think the videographer will come forward to vindicate the cop? In that neighbor hood? hmmmm. ?
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Possibly not, but then again the police get informers from those sorts of neighborhoods as well.

Though half the time, they seem to edit off the first part, and only show the "victim" get shot, not him attacking the cop. Like on the recent incident of the CHP officer collaring the crazy woman on the freeway.
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I'm not familiar with that instance, though it wouldn't be the first time tapes were 'edited for effect' in cases like this, by the media or otherwise.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
In the police's defense, EMTs are often not allowed to respond until a scene is declared safe.

Al Sharpton, (I know everyone's favorite), has just played one street witness' description of events next to clips of the friend's account and they match up very closely. The woman made her statement about the same time as the friend and I don't think they had any opportunity to collude. It's possible but the recorded interviews (via news media) were fairly close together.
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There's a female witness? Is that possibly the one who wishes to remain anonymous that Unabogie posted earlier, the one where your favorite news brand gave the impression the witness was saying there were three police there for when the final shots were fired?

I do think I recall Dorian Johnson mentioning people in cars in his statement, thus if that's accurate there ought to be more witnesses.
 
I always cringe when people get into an anti-cop froth. I'm not supporting any cop who does the wrong thing but there are a lot of policeman out there trying to do the right thing.

I grew up in a poor neighborhood but never had any real issues with the cops. Occasionally they chased us home after kurfew when we were younger - one female officer offered to give my brother a ride home on a cold night. My family had a great dane that used to jump the fence all the time. The cops brought him back to us almost every time we didn't catch him ourselves and they were always pretty awesome about it.

I once got pulled over for doing 41 in a 35. I couldn't have been doing even 35 since when the cop came over the hill I was at a stop sign and hadn't got over 25 by the time I passed him in the intersection but he wrote me a ticket anyway, and was a jerk the whole time. The judge when I was called up looked at the ticket asked who the hell wrote the ticket, said something like 'oh that guy' under his breath and dismissed it without me having to utter a word.

Now I'm a military policeman in the guard who works with a lot of good people who just also happen to be cops. They have a tough job, most of them handle it well, but a few bad apples seem to make it harder and harder everyday.

Again, I'm not defending what happened here or any human being who makes the wrong choices for the wrong reasons. I just think we need to be careful about how we treat people in the line of duty because of a few bad eggs.

I think Skeptic Gingers' suggestions for better anger management and confrontation training is a great idea, and it's been my experience most policemen and women agree they are not as trained as they would like, but are at the mercy of their city and state budgets.
 
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