Michael Brown Shooting

[Frank Newgent]

just saw this...

In an interview on Tuesday with MSNBC, Dorian Johnson, a friend of Mr. Brown’s, gave a description of the shooting. He said that he and Mr. Brown had been walking in the street when an officer drove up and told them to get onto the sidewalk. The two stayed in the street after telling the officer that they were close to Mr. Johnson’s house. The officer, who had passed them, then backed up, almost hitting them in doing so. He then tried to open his door, which hit Mr. Brown, and when the door bounced shut, the officer reached out and grabbed Mr. Brown.

“Mike was trying to get away from being choked,” Mr. Johnson told MSNBC. At that point, he said, the officer pulled a gun and fired, striking Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown “did not reach for the officer’s weapon at all,” he said.

Mr. Johnson said that he and Mr. Brown began to run, and while he ducked behind a car, Mr. Brown kept going. After Mr. Brown was shot a second time, Mr. Johnson said, he turned to face the officer with his hands up, the officer fired several more shots, and Mr. Brown fell.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/u...ion-not-to-name-officer-in-shooting.html?_r=0

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Police show unmasked hostility toward the "rest of us"?
Every cop was a civilian before joining the force. They're armed with weapons because bad people do bad things. What are you drawing this sweeping statement from?

I get the feeling the people doing the most complaining about an incident they didn't witness would be the first to complain if they felt unprotected by cops if they all simply decided to quit.

 

[Unabogie]

From a USA Today story today, Brown buddy says "The second time he says, 'I'll shoot,' a second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "

Sounds like Brown and the cop were grappling before the cop shot, or nobody could have "let go".

I guess you didn't watch the interview with Brown's friend. He clearly explained the circumstances as he saw them. Perhaps you should go watch it and then come back with a more informed opinion?

 

[LTC8K6]

Via Radley Balko, have a look at this public relations video for the Doraville, GA police department. Balko says the video was posted on the front page of the Doraville PD's website as of yesterday, but it doesn't seem to be there anymore.



Doraville has a population of 8,500 residents and last saw a murder in 2009. The images at the beginning and end are the Punisher (a fictional vigilante). The audio is Dope's "Die ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊* Die".

Instead of claiming that some people "just don't like the police", maybe instead you should examine why the police in America show such unmasked hostility towards the rest of us.

So there couldn't be a violent riot in Doraville?

 

[LTC8K6]

I guess you didn't watch the interview with Brown's friend. He clearly explained the circumstances as he saw them. Perhaps you should go watch it and then come back with a more informed opinion?

I'm not sure how we can tell which story is more accurate in order to know which opinions are more or less informed.

I read a HuffPost piece on the shooting, and the story about the gun being fired in the car was written as if it might not have been the officer who fired it.

Investigators have released few details about the deadly encounter, saying only that a scuffle unfolded after the officer on a routine patrol asked Brown and another teen to get out of the street on Saturday afternoon. At some point, the officer's weapon fired inside a patrol car, according to the St. Louis County Police Department, which is handling the investigation at the smaller city's request.

 

[ravdin]

Police show unmasked hostility toward the "rest of us"?
Every cop was a civilian before joining the force. They're armed with weapons because bad people do bad things. What are you drawing this sweeping statement from?

I get the feeling the people doing the most complaining about an incident they didn't witness would be the first to complain if they felt unprotected by cops if they all simply decided to quit.

Why are the cops in camouflage? Why the rifles and scopes? Why does a police arsenal in the suburbs need to have mine resistant vehicles?

I lifted this image from Slate, and the article is worth a read. I'm appalled but no longer surprised that this would happen in America. Give cops military uniforms and weapons and they will act like occupying troops instead of defenders of the law.

 

[ravdin]

So there couldn't be a violent riot in Doraville?

I'm much more worried about an innocent person getting hurt because of gung ho police.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

Why are the cops in camouflage? Why the rifles and scopes? Why does a police arsenal in the suburbs need to have mine resistant vehicles?

I lifted this image from Slate, and the article is worth a read. I'm appalled but no longer surprised that this would happen in America. Give cops military uniforms and weapons and they will act like occupying troops instead of defenders of the law.

This isn't worth a response as it had nothing to do with the subject at hand. You're simply ranting on an anti-cop soapbox.

 

[LTC8K6]

Why are the cops in camouflage? Why the rifles and scopes? Why does a police arsenal in the suburbs need to have mine resistant vehicles?

I lifted this image from Slate, and the article is worth a read. I'm appalled but no longer surprised that this would happen in America. Give cops military uniforms and weapons and they will act like occupying troops instead of defenders of the law.

They don't need mine resistant vehicles, but such vehicles are already available as surplus from the military, so they are relatively cheap.

I would guess that a lot of weight has been removed from them and they are merely small arms proof.

Camo is also probably cheap surplus or overruns.

Scopes are so you hit the correct target, and so you can survey the area without putting your rifle down.

 

[ravdin]

This isn't worth a response as it had nothing to do with the subject at hand. You're simply ranting on an anti-cop soapbox.

Police militarization has everything to do with the issue at hand.

 

[ehcks]

I get the feeling the people doing the most complaining about an incident they didn't witness would be the first to complain if they felt unprotected by cops if they all simply decided to quit.

I'm complaining about the incident I didn't witness because there's no video evidence for me to witness. If being required to record their actions on duty causes police to quit, then they weren't the kind of people who should be police.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

I'm complaining about the incident I didn't witness because there's no video evidence for me to witness. If being required to record their actions on duty causes police to quit, then they weren't the kind of people who should be police.

Can't wait to condemn. Got it.

 

[Unabogie]

I'm not sure how we can tell which story is more accurate in order to know which opinions are more or less informed.

I read a HuffPost piece on the shooting, and the story about the gun being fired in the car was written as if it might not have been the officer who fired it.

No, it's clear how Doran describes what happened. He says:

The cop ordered them up onto the sidewalk. They argued back that they were close to home. The cop slammed on his brakes and reversed towards them, pulling right up alongside them. The cop attempted to open his door, which hit them, stopping the door. He reached out and grabbed Brown by the throat, then the shirt. Brown attempted to pull away. The cop threatened to shoot, and then did. Brown and Doran started to run, at which point the cop shot him again. The cop exited his vehicle and walked over to where Brown was and shot him several more times.

Casebro appeared to think that "let go" had some importance here, but if you listen to what Brown's friend says, there's no "gotcha" there. He's clear about how he says things transpired.

 

[Unabogie]

Is this true? The police have still not interviewed the only eyewitness to the shooting?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/art...nd-_He_Was_Shot_Like_an_Animal/comments/#ctop

Please note that even though Johnson is the only apparent eyewitness to this shooting, neither the St. Louis County police department nor the Ferguson police department have interviewed him to date about the incident.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From a USA Today story today, Brown buddy says "The second time he says, 'I'll shoot,' a second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "

Sounds like Brown and the cop were grappling before the cop shot, or nobody could have "let go".

But at that point Brown ran. Why shoot?

Certainly they could have found the kid and arrested him later. He wasn't a danger to anyone from any of the stories so far, had no warrants, wasn't suspected of a crime except jaywalking on a tiny residential street.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Is this true? The police have still not interviewed the only eyewitness to the shooting?

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/art...nd-_He_Was_Shot_Like_an_Animal/comments/#ctop

He was on TV yesterday with his lawyer confirming that. Later they said the police had finally contacted him and wanted to interview him today.

 

[Primus]

I thought it wasn't possible for government employees to don military outfits and start executing unarmed civilians because you've all got guns?
Have the 2nd amendment enthusiasts fallen asleep at the wheel or is it a case of waiting until the jackboots are on white necks?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, it's clear how Doran describes what happened. He says:

The cop ordered them up onto the sidewalk. They argued back that they were close to home. The cop slammed on his brakes and reversed towards them, pulling right up alongside them. The cop attempted to open his door, which hit them, stopping the door. He reached out and grabbed Brown by the throat, then the shirt. Brown attempted to pull away. The cop threatened to shoot, and then did. Brown and Doran started to run, at which point the cop shot him again. The cop exited his vehicle and walked over to where Brown was and shot him several more times.
Casebro appeared to think that "let go" had some importance here, but if you listen to what Brown's friend says, there's no "gotcha" there. He's clear about how he says things transpired.

I've not heard that highlighted part yet. It's the least credible of the accounts but forensics will tell.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I'm complaining about the incident I didn't witness because there's no video evidence for me to witness. If being required to record their actions on duty causes police to quit, then they weren't the kind of people who should be police.

Can't wait to condemn. Got it.

MG: Did you quote the wrong post? ehcks is not condemning so much as pleading that cops wear a simple device that will save their communities tons of money and grief, not to mention saving the cops tons of grief. Dashcams and uniform cameras are in the $100-$500 range, not crippling for a police force. Especially when compared to other gear they carry every day but rarely use. These devices save money and save reputations.

If this event had been recorded we would not have any of these riots. Either the cop would have been canned and maybe charged or the police would have released the film showing the attack. No competing narratives, no righteous indignation, no riot.

How much do you think these riots are costing the city of Ferguson? Do you want to say more or less than the cost of uniform and dash cameras for every vehicle and every officer?

Personally, my conservative side boils when cities penny pinch on simple things like this that can and will save money in the long run. I was actually happy when I was pulled over a while back and saw the camera on the cops uniform. It made me more confident that he was not lying about what he saw on his radar gun. It actually changed my mind about contesting the ticket even though I honestly believed I was going much slower than he cited me for.

 

[LTC8K6]

No, it's clear how Doran describes what happened. He says:

The cop ordered them up onto the sidewalk. They argued back that they were close to home. The cop slammed on his brakes and reversed towards them, pulling right up alongside them. The cop attempted to open his door, which hit them, stopping the door. He reached out and grabbed Brown by the throat, then the shirt. Brown attempted to pull away. The cop threatened to shoot, and then did. Brown and Doran started to run, at which point the cop shot him again. The cop exited his vehicle and walked over to where Brown was and shot him several more times.

Casebro appeared to think that "let go" had some importance here, but if you listen to what Brown's friend says, there's no "gotcha" there. He's clear about how he says things transpired.

I still don't see why anyone should recite any version as if it's factual...

If a shot was fired from 6 inches away, and more shots were fired from 3 or 10 feet away, this will be obvious during the autopsy.