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Michael Brown Shooting

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lionking said:
Yeah, deserved to be executed......
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You want so bad for me to have said that, you couldn't help typing it yourself, could you?

Funny.

As I posted earlier, I don't know what went down between Michael Brown and the police officer. When I first heard this story, it didn't make sense on either side. Why would a police officer roll up and start shooting someone for jaywalking? On the other hand, why would some average kid start fighting with police over a jaywalking warning? The video helps explain things. Michael Brown wasn't just some average kid minding his own business. He was a thug. After watching the video, it's not such a stretch to imagine someone willing to knock a shopkeeper around during the course of a robbery and then turn around and intimidate the man trying to get his stuff back might be willing to escalate things with a police offer when told to get out of the road or asked to show the items taken in the robbery moments earlier. Do I know for certain that's what happened? No, I don't. But it sure makes a lot more sense than the "Police officer shoots young black boy on his way to cure cancer" narrative the media gave us.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
No judge in the country would look at that video and think Brown was a dangerous felon.

But you see what you want to see. There's a big guy pushing a little clerk and stealing a carton of cigarillos. Yes it's a crime, a petty crime.

But you don't want it to be a petty crime because you see a scary black thug.
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No. "Petty crimes" have another term - "misdemeanor".

Strong arm robbery is a felony, no matter how badly the idiot left wants to pretend it isn't.
 
Unabogie said:
Well, in point of fact he was not a felon, since he'll never be tried in court, the store owners don't even apparently consider it a "robbery", and we'll never know what really happened. As for "violent", I've pointed out that what he did was shove someone. He did not beat anyone to a pulp, he did not knife someone, and he did not even hit someone. It's absolutely being used to extrapolate, in this very thread, that he likely attacked the officer who shot him and in fact had returned -- after being shot -- to attack him some more. So in light of that, it's important to describe what he did realistically and not attempt to embellish it.
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And a rapist who is never caught is not a rapist. Got it.
 
lionking said:
The police chief has stated that the two incidents are not connected. Why do so many in this thread continue to connect them?
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Because now we know he was a scumbag thug, who may very well have done much of what the cop says he did. That is why.
 
rwguinn said:
It is an attempt to play on emptions.
He was old enough to vote, enter into contracts, and do most other adult things The fact that his age ends in "teen" does not make him an adolescent, which is what 95% of English-speaking adults mean when speaking of "teen-agers". Excessive pedantry is a last resort of someone losing an argument
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It's not an attempt to play on emotions. IMO the people who object to an eighteen-year-old being referred to as a teenager are the ones trying to play on emotions. I do consider most eighteen-year-olds to be adolescents. So does Psychology Today:
Adolescence describes the teenage years between 13 and 19 and can be considered the transitional stage from childhood to adulthood. Link
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Distracted1 said:
Is it a leap because you believe the police are generally dishonest? Because you don't see the actions recorded as indicative of someone willing to be violent? Or some other reason? If so, what is your reason for believing the police version is so far from the truth?
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My reason for believing the police version is so far from the truth? You missed my point. What police version are you referring to? I thought they were still investigating this. I didn't know there even was a police version yet.
 
Distracted1 said:
Wow. That is so far from the truth that it is actually painful for me that I agree with you on so many other points regarding this issue.
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Are you saying that you don't believe there are any particularly bad areas of this country where the average teenage male is some level of thug? That's what I'm saying. They may not all be to the level of strong-arm robbery, but posing with guns, doing/dealing drugs, obtaining illegal guns... shoplifting, getting into fights, etc.

I believe there are absolutely areas in this country where some number of those behaviors is standard issue for the average teenage male. Areas of Camden, NJ - Detroit - Chicago - Atlanta - Baltimore - Oakland - L.A. - St. Louis, etc. etc. etc.

Do you disagree that there are pockets like that, where the "average kid" is a thug? Or do you just disagree that Ferguson appears to be such a pocket?
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Are you saying that you don't believe there are any particularly bad areas of this country where the average teenage male is some level of thug? That's what I'm saying. They may not all be to the level of strong-arm robbery, but posing with guns, doing/dealing drugs, obtaining illegal guns... shoplifting, getting into fights, etc.

I believe there are absolutely areas in this country where some number of those behaviors is standard issue for the average teenage male. Areas of Camden, NJ - Detroit - Chicago - Atlanta - Baltimore - Oakland - L.A. - St. Louis, etc. etc. etc.

Do you disagree that there are pockets like that, where the "average kid" is a thug? Or do you just disagree that Ferguson appears to be such a pocket?
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You underestimate the amount of damage a small group of miscreants can cause. Perhaps it is because ( and I feel like stabbing myself in the head for using this term ) the media is always reporting on the arrests and violence that occurs in these areas, and has little to say about the rest of the residents, so perceptions get screwed.

This is coming from someone who was a teenage miscreant, in Southwest Detroit. There were indeed other troublemakers like myself, and a smaller amount who were violent- but far from a number that could be used to claim that the " average" teen in these neighborhoods is a thug.
 
lionking said:
The police chief has stated that the two incidents are not connected. Why do so many in this thread continue to connect them?
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The police chief stated both on the same day, some media outlets are still running with when he said they weren't connected.
 
Kaosium said:
Hrm.

I wonder if I just got out smart-assed here?

In any event, well played sir!
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No, I'm being deadpan because it's funnier. The reason it's more funny to be straight and serious is because it's completely true. Listen to the lyrics, and it's directly about two of those hallow husks discussing things.

I thought it was from the very first time I heard it (although I already knew the title of the song because the DJ said it first). Having this same conversations with another friend, they also were in disbelief that it was about that, or that you could even tell that from the lyrics. So I got curios to see if my thoughts were correct. Lo and behold...
 
newyorkguy said:
It's not an attempt to play on emotions. IMO the people who object to an eighteen-year-old being referred to as a teenager are the ones trying to play on emotions. I do consider most eighteen-year-olds to be adolescents. So does Psychology Today:





My reason for believing the police version is so far from the truth? You missed my point. What police version are you referring to? I thought they were still investigating this. I didn't know there even was a police version yet.
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Refer to page one of this thread. The initial police statement was that Mr. Brown attacked the officer and tried to seize his weapon, from which events escalated to his death.
 
Distracted1 said:
You underestimate the amount of damage a small group of miscreants can cause. Perhaps it is because ( and I feel like stabbing myself in the head for using this term ) the media is always reporting on the arrests and violence that occurs in these areas, and has little to say about the rest of the residents, so perceptions get screwed.

This is coming from someone who was a teenage miscreant, in Southwest Detroit. There were indeed other troublemakers like myself, and a smaller amount who were violent- but far from a number that could be used to claim that the " average" teen in these neighborhoods is a thug.
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I respect your posts in this thread, and I respect your direct experience in the matter.

I will pseudo-concede the point by saying that I may have overstated what I was saying, and may be conflating "way too many" with "so many that it becomes the average."

Or, perhaps there are areas like I say but just not as numerous as I was envisioning.

Regardless, there are some real awful places in this nation. I'm talking about the sort of areas where you could get a riot going for stupid reasons, or that any white person present after dark will probably be victimized in some way within the space of an hour.
 
Distracted1 said:
Refer to page one of this thread. The initial police statement was that Mr. Brown attacked the officer and tried to seize his weapon, from which events escalated to his death.
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From the link in the OP:
The police say the officer shot Brown after the teen shoved the officer and tried to wrestle the officer’s gun from him. But a number of witnesses, including Johnson, refute those claims. And in the wake of the shooting, the Ferguson Police Department has asked the St. Louis County police to step in and take over the investigation.
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The police statement does not really address the allegations that the officer continued to shoot Brown after Brown, already shot, raised his hands in surrender or that Brown was some distance from the police vehicle and unarmed when he was hit. As you can see, early on the Ferguson Police asked the St. Louis County Police Department to takeover the investigation. Takeover meaning not completed.
 
Kaosium said:
The police chief stated both on the same day, some media outlets are still running with when he said they weren't connected.
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ETA



"Ferguson officer realized during encounter that Michael Brown might be suspect in robbery, chief says

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.

Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

Jackson also addressed concerns about his release of information about the robbery at the same time he released the name of the officer at a press conference Friday morning.

Jackson said he released the security video from the liquor store because news organizations had been requesting it under the Freedom of Information Act.

Asked by reporters why he released the tape, he said, "Because I had to. Too many people put in (freedom of information) requests for it."

Told of the family's angry reaction to the release, he said, "First, my heart goes out to the family. I can't imagine what they are going through. We have given you everything that we have now… There is nothing else we have got."

Jackson said Wilson, 28, worked as a police officer in neighboring Jennings for two years before joining Ferguson about four years ago. He described Wilson as “a gentle, quiet man” and “a distinguished officer.”

Jennings closed its police department in late 2011 in the wake of a federal probe into the theft of grant money, and turned public safety over to St. Louis County Police.

For Wilson, Jackson said, the shooting "is absolutely devastating. He never intended for any of this to happen."

- Kim Bell, Joel Currier, Jeremy Kohler"​
 
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