Michael Brown shooting II

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RandFan said:
I did not see your post. I sincerely apologize. However, I provided the video of Cyril Wecht. Brown could have only been shot in the top of the head with the bullet exiting out of his chin if he were falling. His wounds are consistent with someone who was shot while incapacitated.
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1.When did Cyril Wecht examine the body ?

2. By the 12th shot, Brown probably was incapacitated.

3. What is the inconsistency please ?
 
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Thanks everyone.

I hate to be a downer but It's been a long day for me. I'll be back. :)
 
RandFan said:
How "calm" do you think Wilson was after Brown demonstrated contempt for Wilson? Did you know that there is actually a term called "Contempt of Cop". I know that I'm condescending right now and I'll regret it later... but did you know that contempt of cop actually can change an otherwise objective and rational officer into an angry one?

I'm sorry, we can surmise all kinds of things. Our imaginations are fertile and we only need to sit back and let the thoughts flow.

We don't know. I don't know if Wilson was in reasonable fear of his life. He could have been. It's not an impossibility. On the other hand, Brown may very well have been shot because he decided to **** with the wrong person.

ETA: Even if you will not admit it, you know that thought entered your mind. You know it.
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Again, I'd tend to agree with you if not for Wilson's record. Cops that fly off the handle at little things don't have commendations and clean records. With back up on the way, Wilson had no reason to fly off the handle, all he needed to do was keep the two talking until back up got there. Grabbing and pulling Brown into the SVU would have been a crazy action. Wilson was belted in still, so he had no way to control Brown. The sort of rage that it would require to demonstrate that sort of idiocy would have been noted pretty quick in the force, and yes I know the claims that the cops close ranks etc. It's not true, especially when the officer involved is known as a loose cannon. There have been plenty of cops fired for doing things similar to what he would have had to have done for the confrontation to have been started by him.

Again the witnesses are fairly consistent that Wilson ordered Brown to stop multiple times prior to firing the fatal shots. That's rather inconsistence with a cop that has lost it and is acting in anger, but very consistent with a cop who is still trying desperately to control the situation and failing because the other person is refusing to cooperate.
 
WildCat said:
You are both active participants in this thread, yet neither of you in all this time can get basic, irrefutable facts correct such as where the shots were fired.

There's really no excuse for that, either neither of you are capable of basic reading comprehension, you are deliberately lying about the case, or some combination of that. Neither option makes you look good on a forum dedicated to critical thinking.

If you are going to dispute such basic facts at least try to come up with a rational argument, otherwise you really ought to be over in Conspiracy Theories.
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Yeah, okay.

Someone remind me, did he ever apologize for that conspiracy theory the he falsely claimed I was making?
 
RandFan said:
I did not see your post. I sincerely apologize. However, I provided the video of Cyril Wecht. Brown could have only been shot in the top of the head with the bullet exiting out of his chin if he were falling. His wounds are consistent with someone who was shot while incapacitated.
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You are confusing two different shots. The shot that exited through the chin was the one that hit right above the eye. The second head shot, which was the fatal one, struck the top of his head.

The blue line is the first, the red line the second, fatal, shot to the head.
picture.php

(Drawn from autopsy interview and illustration information)
 
RandFan said:
Since my point isn't clear, let me make it as clear as can be.

Things are not always as they appear.
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That just means cops should shoot every civilian they encounter engaging in questionable behavior. You know, just to be on the safe side.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Why would him being shot while falling present a problem or imply incapacitation?

Cop is squeezing off rounds in rapid succession, Brown begins to stumble forward and his head falls into the line of fire...

I'm not sure what's confusing about that or what's problematic about that.
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Here's the relevant testimony:

"Just coming straight at me like he was going to run right through me. And when he gets about that 8 to 10 feet away, I look down, I remember looking at my sites and firing, all I see is his head and that's what I shot.

"I don't know how many, I know at least once because I saw the last one go into him. And then when it went into him, the demeanor on his face went blank, the aggression was gone, it was gone, I mean, I knew he stopped, the threat was stopped.

I find it somewhat unusual. How did he see his face if his face is pointing towards the ground?
 
Mike! said:
You are confusing two different shots. The shot that exited through the chin was the one that hit right above the eye. The second head shot, which was the fatal one, struck the top of his head.

The blue line is the first, the red line the second, fatal, shot to the head.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=781&pictureid=9042[/qimg]
(Drawn from autopsy interview and illustration information)
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which begs the question of why the second shot was deemed necessary.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Which of these two people is more likely to start a physical confrontation?
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Hmmm...maybe even? Contrary to popular belief, picking a fight with a guy with a gun is generally a bad idea, even stupid people are familiar with that rule.
 
Mike! said:
Deemed? It was fired a split second after the other three shots that made up the last volley. Have you listened to the audio of the incident? It might make things easier to understand.
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Which shot is the one described in Wilson's testimony?
 
TheL8Elvis said:
Please provide the evidence for the hilited. Thanks in advance.
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Show me the slightest bit of cross-examination by the prosecutor and then we can talk. If you don't know the difference between direct and cross- examination, look them up.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Okay, perhaps Brown wanted to give Wilson a hug, apologize for the earlier violence, and then turn around to voluntarily be cuffed and take a seat in the back of Wilson's cruiser.

However, since Brown didn't want to spoil the surprise by indicating his desire to surrender verbally, and instead charged toward Wilson... we must forgive Wilson mistaking this for ongoing aggression, and we must understand why Wilson resumed fire.
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Again that word, despite it being contradicted by most of the witnesses. Still waiting for someone to demonstrate a speed greater than 3.4 mph...
 
davefoc said:
Sometimes Grand Juries are just convened to investigate aren't they? In those kind of Grand Juries what is the function of the prosecutor? It seems like he is there to work with the grand jury to get all the information that they request in front of them. Do I have this idea wrong? Assuming that I am roughly right isn't there precedents for the prosecution using the grand jury as more of an investigatory tool than a mechanism to justify a prosecution? Would it have been wrong for the DA to do that in this case? Do you think that is what the DA did here?
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I think the GJ was convened largely to placate the mob--in that respect I'm actually in agreement with the Wilson supporters here. I don't think it was investigatory at all--they made up their mind before it even started, and this was just carefully laid out to make it look like they were doing the right thing. They should have turned it over to a special prosecutor from the start.
 
NoahFence said:
Moot point. We've seen the video in the store. We know his character.



If Michael Brown didn't rob a store and assault a police officer, he'd have survived the day. That is a stone-cold fact.
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Huh?? You need to read some of the other forum threads. Start with the 12 year old with the pellet gun, then try the chokehold Garner dude. 2 people, neither assaulted a cop...both dead. Videos in both cases. If a video had surfaced of Brown walking (not charging) at Wilson, we'd still be sitting here discussing how the GJ let him off. That's just the way it goes...:mad:

EDIT: well it seems RandFan already pointed this out, and you admonished him for going off topic when you brought it upon yourself with that ridiculous statement...so it bears repeating.
 
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stanfr said:
Huh?? You need to read some of the other forum threads. Start with the 12 year old with the pellet gun, then try the chokehold Garner dude. 2 people, neither assaulted a cop...both dead. Videos in both cases. If a video had surfaced of Brown walking (not charging) at Wilson, we'd still be sitting here discussing how the GJ let him off. That's just the way it goes...:mad:

EDIT: well it seems RandFan already pointed this out, and you admonished him for going off topic when you brought it upon yourself with that ridiculous statement...so it bears repeating.
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Walking, even at that speed, is not surrendering. Here's a demonstration of a 3mph "walk", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdGyXIlftD0

Charging at that speed after having assaulted Wilson still meant that Brown was a threat. If he had stopped and surrendered like he was told to do, Brown would be alive today. But the fact is, he charged at Wilson, like witness 48 said. The majority of other witnesses who say he didn't charge are liars. http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1499/4375/original.jpg
 
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