Michael Brown shooting II

[KatieG]

I see he has bulked up again.

Yes, he obviously put on weight after he was killed.

 

[PhantomWolf]

The private autopsy has him as 77 inches, or for those that can't count, 6 foot 5 inches, and 285 lb.

I'd say that is a pretty good version to go with.

 

[NoahFence]

My point is that when it comes to judging the character of people assumptions based in part on bias often have bad outcomes. Absent the video evidence of those two incidents, I'm willing to bet the evidence would have been sufficient for most people to assume that the victims had done what was claimed of them.

Moot point. We've seen the video in the store. We know his character.

No. Just because you say they are doesn't make it so.

I don't know that. You don't know that. You can sit there behind your computer and type all day asserting that you know something but at the end of the day you don't. There is a lot that is troubling about this incident. None of it is enough to sway me either way. If you are confident in your judgement that is fine but don't pretend you know what happened.

Don't tell the rest of us what happened when you were not there.

If Michael Brown didn't rob a store and assault a police officer, he'd have survived the day. That is a stone-cold fact.

 

[Mike!]

Moot point. We've seen the video in the store. We know his character.



If Michael Brown didn't rob a store and assault a police officer, he'd have survived the day. That is a stone-cold fact.

I don't know that it's 'a stone-cold fact'. He could have easily been hit by a bus while walking down the middle of the street that very day as well.
Then we could have had a couple moderated threads discussing why city busses are always running down innocent black pedestrians with reckless abandon, daily.

 

[RandFan]

¹Moot point. We've seen the video in the store. We know his character.

²If Michael Brown didn't rob a store and assault a police officer, he'd have survived the day. ³ That is a stone-cold fact.

1. No. We don't. That's BS. Many good people have done very bad things.
2. BS, if that is so axiomatic then what did Tamir Rice and John Crawford do that would justify THEIR deaths?
3. No. Even if that were a fact IT ISN'T, that doesn't justify his death.

Are you honestly arguing that only people who die deserve to die?

 

[RandFan]

¹Moot point. We've seen the video in the store. We know his character.

²If Michael Brown didn't rob a store and assault a police officer, he'd have survived the day. ³ That is a stone-cold fact.

1. No. We don't. That's BS. Many good people have done very bad things.
2. BS, if that is so axiomatic then what did Tamir Rice and John Crawford do that would justify THEIR deaths?
3. That doesn't justify his death.

Are you honestly arguing that only people who die deserve to die?

 

[NoahFence]

1. No. We don't. That's BS. Many good people have done very bad things.
   [*]BS, if that is so axiomatic then what did Tamir Rice and John Crawford do that would justify THEIR deaths?
2. No. Even if that were a fact IT ISN'T, that doesn't justify his death.

Are you honestly arguing that only people who die deserve to die?

I'm only going by the evidence and what I see. If you choose to invent some fantasy, or drop hypothetical situations in here, that's good on you.

I choose reality.

As to #2 (how appropriate)
STAY ON TOPIC.
Focus.

This is about Michael Brown.

 

[RandFan]

I'm only going by the evidence and what I see.

How do you control for your confirmation bias?

For myself, to control for confirmation bias, I'm honest enough to admit when the evidence isn't conclusive. I don't ignore evidence that doesn't fits my bias. I don't hand wave away valid analogies with simplistic appeals.

 

[NoahFence]

How do you control for your confirmation bias.

For myself, to control for confirmation bias I'm honest enough to admit when the evidence isn't conclusive. I don't ignore evidence that fits my bias. I don't hand wave away valid analogies with simplistic appeals.

I don't need to control any confirmation bias.

1) He robbed a store. That's on video. That is not in dispute.
2) He assaulted a police officer. That is also not in dispute.

If you think either of those are indeed in dispute, you're wrong. Period.

 

[RandFan]

Things that make you go hmmm....

• Why would a man fleeing an armed man, stop when a shot is fired, then turn and charge the armed man?

 

[RandFan]

I don't need to control any confirmation bias.

1) He robbed a store. That's on video. That is not in dispute.
2) He assaulted a police officer. That is also not in dispute.

If you think either of those are indeed in dispute, you're wrong. Period.

That does not mean that Wilson could not have killed Brown out of anger.

If you think that is not a fact then you are wrong. Period.

 

[NoahFence]

That does not mean that Wilson could not have killed Brown out of anger.

If you think that is not a fact then you are wrong. Period.

Are you under the impression that the proper way to deal with a guy trying to steal your gun and assaulting you is to hog-tie him, smoke a fatty with him and listen to Grateful Dead?

 

[Mumbles]

• Why would a man fleeing an armed man, stop when a shot is fired, then turn and charge the armed man?

Truth told...I can see that happening. I don't believe the specific stories of Mike Brown putting his head down and charging while bent over and looking at the ground, nor him stopping to "bulk up", but if someone's shooting at a guy, I can believe a guy turning and running towards the guy with the gun, in order to stop him from shooting.

 

[RandFan]

Are you under the impression that the proper way to deal with a guy trying to steal your gun...

Had Brown died in during that struggle I would never had said a thing.

Once a threat has been neutralized and you are no longer in fear of your life then extra judicial executions are a crime against humanity. We don't execute people for attempted murder.

 

[Ammonitida]

That does not mean that Wilson could not have killed Brown out of anger.

If you think that is not a fact then you are wrong. Period.

If Brown had stopped advancing toward Wilson and instead stopped and surrendered as he was told to do, Brown would be alive today. Brown chose to advance on an officer he just assaulted in his own SUV -- circumstances that would put him in fear of his life, not make him "angry" enough to kill in cold blood. Even if he had his hands up while he advanced, he was still a threat. As witness 48 said, "I would have shot him instantly if he charged at me like that".

 

[RandFan]

Truth told...I can see that happening. I don't believe the specific stories of Mike Brown putting his head down and charging while bent over and looking at the ground, nor him stopping to "bulk up", but if someone's shooting at a guy, I can believe a guy turning and running towards the guy with the gun, in order to stop him from shooting.

I don't buy it but that's fine. How likely is it and is it all possible that Wilson shot Brown out of anger and contempt?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Like, if someone is carrying a gun in a park or in a store it's safe to assume that person is armed and dangerous. Sounds skeptical to me.

Sometimes making assumptions and acting on them is part of the job description.

Not sure why you are so focused on what we can and can't know with 100% certainty.

We don't really need to know with certainty if Wilson was in fear of his life to discuss the case, or even to judge his actions. We can discuss whether we find it reasonable for him to claim to be in fear of his life, or whether we find it reasonable for him to take the actions he did in the scenario, such as we know it.

Wilson didn't know what brown was thinking, brown didn't know what wilson was thinking - but they both acted in ways that were almost certainly based on what they believed the other person to be thinking.

 

[NoahFence]

Had Brown died in during that struggle I would never had said a thing.

Once a threat has been neutralized and you are no longer in fear of your life then extra judicial executions are a crime against humanity. We don't execute people for attempted murder.

I appreciate your devil's advocate posts, but in this case they're inappropriate. Wilson has been exonerated using facts and evidence.

 

[RandFan]

If Brown had stopped advancing toward Wilson and instead stopped and surrendered as he was told to do, Brown would be alive today.

1. Objectively demonstrate that Brown advanced toward Wilson.
2. Objectively demonstrate that Wilson was not angry at Brown.

Brown chose to advance on an officer he just assaulted in his own SUV -- circumstances that would put him in fear of his life, not make him "angry" enough to kill in cold blood. Even if he had his hands up while he advanced, he was still a threat. As witness 48 said, "I would have shot him instantly if he charged at me like that".

You don't know what happened.

 

[NoahFence]

I don't buy it but that's fine. How likely is it and is it all possible that Wilson shot Brown out of anger and contempt?

To answer that with any level of certainty you'd need to know his background. Was he a raging racist? Did he naturally hate blacks, and join the force so he'd have a better shot at gunning one down? If I see evidence for any of that I'll join your side.

All the evidence I've seen points to Brown responsible for his own death. We have ample evidence that his character was among the worst society has to offer.

You show me equal evidence painting Wilson with that brush and I'll stop sitting here shaking my head in amazement at the lengths you'll go to in order to vilify Wilson for protecting himself and his community from this trash.