Michael Brown shooting II

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lionking said:
That's what he told the GJ, and the GJ brought it. Colour me skeptical.
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Witness 10 told the same story (from what I can tell they don't differ in any significant detail) to investigators and the grand jury. Is he lying too?

Mike Brown, my initial thought was he's a big guy. He's tall and like stocky build and that's it. He-he, they both walked passed me. I took my tools, went into I came back outside to get some more stuff and I looked down the street and I seen the police car at a slant and I seen Mr. Brown in the window of the police car looked…it appeared as they were wrestling through the window and one gunshot had let off. And, Mr. Brown took off running and my first thought was like 'oh my gosh' did I actually just witness a police officer being murdered because it took a while for the police officer to get out of the car and pursue the-the suspect. And, I wanna say maybe six seconds, but it seemed like it was forever after the first gunshot. So, the police officer exited the vehicle with his weapon drawn pursuing Mr. Brown. Mr. Brown was quite a distance and he stopped and when he stopped, he didn't get down on the ground or anything. He turned around and he did some type of movement. I never seen him put his hands up or anything. I can't recall the movement that he did. I'm not sure if he pulled his pants up or whatever he did but I seen some type of movement and he started charging towards the police officer. The police officer then returned fire, well, not returned fire, open fire on Mr. Brown. Um, if I had to guess the shots and the distance between him and, a, Mr. Brown, it would have to be five to ten yards and the shots that were fired was four, five to six shots fired and Mr. Brown was still standing up. Um, and my thoughts was while he's missing this guy this close, is he hitting him or because Mr. Brown there was no reaction from him to show that he was been hit. Um, after that, Mr. Brown then paused. He stopped running and when he stopped running the police officer stopped firing. And, then Mr. Brown continued, started again to charge towards him and after that the police officer returned fire and um well not returned, I'm using wrong….a started to fire once more at him. Um, if I had to guess the rounds that were fired then it would be four to five more shots and after that Mr. Brown collapsed and fell to the ground.
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https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370930-interview-witness-10.html

So you tell me, is it good police SOP to chase someone through a crowded street, gun in hand (shooting or not) rather than waiting for backup? Wilson is a cowboy who will never be an operational cop again. The best he can expect is a desk job. Even a dysfunctional and disgraceful force like Ferguson realises this.

Hopefully Wilson will not act with the lack of class of our humble George Zimmerman, and will realise that there is no future for him as a cop.
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I would say that cops are expected to pursue someone who has just committed a felony.

He's already resigning from the department, I think. But that's because the situation has made it impossible for him work there. He may never be able to work as cop again but that's because he's too infamous not because he did anything wrong. If this hadn't turned into such a huge story, he would probably be back at his job already.
 
Tony Stark said:
He's already resigning from the department, I think. But that's because the situation has made it impossible for him work there. He may never be able to work as cop again but that's because he's too infamous not because he did anything wrong. If this hadn't turned into such a huge story, he would probably be back at his job already.
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If Michael Brown deserves what he got for his actions, then officer Wilson deserves what he gets for his.
 
marplots said:
If Michael Brown deserves what he got for his actions, then officer Wilson deserves what he gets for his.
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I wouldn't say that Brown deserved to die. It is clearly his fault though. Instead of assaulting a police officer, trying to take his gun, and then charging the officer who was pointing a gun at him, perhaps Brown shouldn't have done that.

Wilson on the other hand, didn't do anything wrong.
 
I don't think Brown deserved to die; I think he deserved to be stopped from doing what he was attempting to do, and it is exceedingly unfortunate that the measures that ended up being necessary to stop him resulted in his death.
 
Tony Stark said:
I wouldn't say that Brown deserved to die. It is clearly his fault though. Instead of assaulting a police officer, trying to take his gun, and then charging the officer who was pointing a gun at him, perhaps Brown shouldn't have done that.

Wilson on the other hand, didn't do anything wrong.
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Maybe he didn't do anything illegal, but the protestors - the community he polices - disagree about the "wrong" part.
 
lionking said:
That, despite the GJ's finding, is highly debatable.
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I suppose you could assert that both Wilson and Witness 10 are liars. Though this begs the question of why they have the same version of events if they are both lying. I've can't think of any plausible reason for why they have the same story besides the obvious one. Witness 10 watched the incident take place and happened how they say it did. If you can think of any others, please tell me, I would like to know if I'm wrong
 
marplots said:
Maybe he didn't do anything illegal, but the protestors - the community he polices - disagree about the "wrong" part.
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They seem to believe that Wilson executed Brown in cold blood* though, so their belief that he was wrong is based on a falsehood.

I read two different accounts claiming that Brown was on his knees, hands in the air, begging for his life, when Wilson went up and executed him for no reason. I don't buy it for a second and neither did the fed questioning them - they were warned many times that it is a crime to lie to a federal agent. The story isn't believable on the face of it, and they both knew Brown so they have motive to lie and them having the same story means nothing given that they could have and surely did collude when coming up with their lies. I dunno how they could have thought that investigators would believe them though.
 
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Here’s the simple point that all the outraged blogs and posts I’ve read seem to be missing: It is possible for ALL of the following things to be true (and I’m not saying I think all of them are, but roll with me):

• Black citizens in Ferguson (and many other places like it) have been marginalized by generations of systemic racism from many directions.
• Ferguson police have a history of treating black citizens unfairly, and the black community’s mistrust of police is entirely justified.
• Wilson is a racist jerk.
• Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense.

The trueness or falseness of that last point is entirely independent of the trueness of falseness of the other three, much as some people would apparently like to pretend otherwise. Even if the rage bloggers’ worst condemnations of Wilson, the Ferguson police, and society are true, that still does not negate the possibility that Wilson acted justifiably in self defense in this instance. It is possible for a person to be racist jerk with a racist agenda in a racist system, and still legitimately need to use deadly force for self defense.
 
Iamafalser said:
An important thing to note: The root cause of what transpired on August 9.

Mr. Brown's behavior.
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That's not even close to the root cause of what happened.

The root cause is a combination of a community that doesn't trust their own government/justice system and a government/justice system that doesn't respect their own community (or portions thereof). It's a negative feedback loop where every bad behavior confirms the bias of the other group, allowing for a lot of legitimate and short-sighted finger pointing, and its been building for generations. I'm not talking about just Ferguson.

Very few want to address or even acknowledge this because it is very hard to gloat when you can't isolate all the blame in one place or person.
 
Quinn said:
Here’s the simple point that all the outraged blogs and posts I’ve read seem to be missing: It is possible for ALL of the following things to be true (and I’m not saying I think all of them are, but roll with me):

• Black citizens in Ferguson (and many other places like it) have been marginalized by generations of systemic racism from many directions.
• Ferguson police have a history of treating black citizens unfairly, and the black community’s mistrust of police is entirely justified.
• Wilson is a racist jerk.
• Wilson was justified in shooting Brown in self-defense.

The trueness or falseness of that last point is entirely independent of the trueness of falseness of the other three, much as some people would apparently like to pretend otherwise. Even if the rage bloggers’ worst condemnations of Wilson, the Ferguson police, and society are true, that still does not negate the possibility that Wilson acted justifiably in self defense in this instance. It is possible for a person to be racist jerk with a racist agenda in a racist system, and still legitimately need to use deadly force for self defense.
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In retrospect, I could have saved time on my last post by just copy-pasting this post. That'll teach me to not finish reading the thread before replying.

eta: QFT
 
Tony Stark said:
I suppose you could assert that both Wilson and Witness 10 are liars. Though this begs the question of why they have the same version of events if they are both lying. I've can't think of any plausible reason for why they have the same story besides the obvious one. Witness 10 watched the incident take place and happened how they say it did. If you can think of any others, please tell me, I would like to know if I'm wrong
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And why would their version of events explain the 20f of blood left behind Brown before he was dropped? He sure as hell didn't stumble 20ft forward or take a few short steps. Nor was he ever stationary. Multiple witnesses say he either tried to run past him (in his direction) or charged at him like a football player, and the blood trail tells the same story. The "witnesses" who claim that he was killed where he stopped or just took a few steps toward Wilson before being killed are not supported by forensics.
 
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lionking said:
Exactly. Brown was running away from Wilson. Running after him shooting in a crowded street might be SOP for Ferguson Police, but not for any decent police force.
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There is no evidence whatsoever that he took a single shot at Brown while he was running and Brown was fleeing. In fact, the grouping of the shell casings is strong evidence that no shots were fired between the car and where Brown's body was found. 2 shots were fired from inside the car, all the rest were fired from approximately the same location well over 100' from the car.

IOW, the witnesses who claimed that Wilson got out of the car firing at a fleeing Brown, and continued firing as he gave chase, were either mistaken or lying.
 
lionking said:
That's what he told the GJ, and the GJ brought it. Colour me skeptical.

So you tell me, is it good police SOP to chase someone through a crowded street, gun in hand (shooting or not) rather than waiting for backup? Wilson is a cowboy who will never be an operational cop again. The best he can expect is a desk job. Even a dysfunctional and disgraceful force like Ferguson realises this.

Hopefully Wilson will not act with the lack of class of our humble George Zimmerman, and will realise that there is no future for him as a cop.
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I'm pretty certain that is what cops are trained to do, particularly for fleeing violent felons such as Brown.

This was not a "cowboy", but a cop doing exactly as he was trained.

eta: And as for the hilited bit that is supported by the physical evidence, your narrative is supported by nothing but your speculation.
 
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marplots said:
Maybe he didn't do anything illegal, but the protestors - the community he polices - disagree about the "wrong" part.
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Only because they insist on a narrative that is unsupported by the overwhelming majority of evidence.

And it's obvious that the lynch mob isn't about to objectively examine the evidence, which is pretty much why civilized society doesn't condone justice via lynch mob.
 
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