Michael Brown shooting II

[Cylinder]

I think there may be some genuine shock in store for those adhering to the story that Wilson was unaware of the stealing BOLO.

The officer who shot Ferguson teen Michael Brown stopped Brown and another teen because they were walking in the street, not because of a robbery a few minutes earlier, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said Friday afternoon.
Jackson said the officer was aware cigars had been taken in the robbery of a store nearby, but did not know when he encountered Brown and Dorian Johnson that they might be suspects. He stopped them because they were walking in the street, Jackson said.

But Jackson told the Post-Dispatch that the officer, Darren Wilson, saw cigars in Brown's hand and realized he might be the robber.

Jackson also addressed concerns about his release of information about the robbery at the same time he released the name of the officer at a press conference Friday morning.

Jackson said he released the security video from the liquor store because news organizations had been requesting it under the Freedom of Information Act.
Asked by reporters why he released the tape, he said, "Because I had to. Too many people put in (freedom of information) requests for it."

ETA: What Elvis said.

 

[Monketi Ghost]

So the police say a BOLO report about the robbery was made. Okay then.

 

[Mumbles]

And you've yet to explain why Jahvaris Fulton was never called a thug and why Obama is never called a thug.

They've both been called "thug" countless times. The phrase "Chicago thug" gained national prominence when Obama was elected.

Sandusky was a creep, not a thug.

I'm sorry, when did we become technical about which terms we use for child rapists?

People thought Sherman was aggressively trying to be intimidating, and was acting a bit ghetto.

Yes, and those people are bigots.

So, that was a big fail. Go do some work, and maybe try again

(but please don't)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

I see nothing about the recording which sheds any substantial light on what happened.

Because timing of those 10 shots lines up with all the possible accounts?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If the door was open, a struggle " through the window" makes little sense.

Right. Given the witness who we have heard from said Wilson pulled up too close and when he tried to open the door, Brown was either in the way or pushed it shut or both.

 

[bigred]

nm, given false info about initial post, apologies

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I think there may be some genuine shock in store for those adhering to the story that Wilson was unaware of the stealing BOLO.



ETA: What Elvis said.

Or one of these two scenarios might turn out to be true:


the Ferguson Market attorney said

police did not see the video until after the unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, was shot dead in the street.

Or, there was no BOLO because the store clerk declined to press charges.

 

[Loss Leader]

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[a_unique_person]

We don't because we don't know for sure the recording is an actual recording of what happened. Once again, when you're talking to someone, and a volley of nearby gunshots happens, do you obliviously continue on with your conversation as if nothing has happened? That alone, and the lateness of when the recording was turned over to CNN, should raise all sorts of red flags.

It wasn't your usual conversation.

 

[Distracted1]

Right. Given the witness who we have heard from said Wilson pulled up too close and when he tried to open the door, Brown was either in the way or pushed it shut or both.

Or he pushed him back into the car through an open door and struggled there.

 

[Cylinder]

The time frame makes it very hard to match up Wilson's story with the last recorded 10 shots.

The problem there is the arbitrarily-assigned start time. The claimed taunting could well occur before the alleged recording.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Or he pushed him back into the car through an open door and struggled there.

The problem is you are ignoring the witnesses when you make up that scenario. That was a key point in the discussion.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The problem there is the arbitrarily-assigned start time. The claimed taunting could well occur before the alleged recording.

Again, you can make up dozens of scenarios if you ignore all the witnesses.

But let's take yours. Does it include the bull rushing component?

Did Wilson get mad at the taunts and shoot?

Did Brown charge a second time despite the volley of 6 shots? Doesn't that contradict the taunting of "you won't shoot"?

I think Wilson's claim of the taunting, if Josie's account has any truth in it being Wilson's account, is going to trip him up.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Or one of these two scenarios might turn out to be true:


the Ferguson Market attorney said

I don't get it. Right from your link:
REPORTER: The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

How is it relevant who called ? It was called in.

Or, there was no BOLO because the store clerk declined to press charges.

A crime was called in. A BOLO was issued. They don't wait to see if someone wants to press charges.

Are you making the argument the chief was confused about wilson being pushed into the car and whether a BOLO was issued ?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't get it. Right from your link:
REPORTER: The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

How is it relevant who called ? It was called in.

It's not relevant to me. But there are reports that there was no BOLO. I'm only posting information that relates to whether Wilson did or did not go back because Brown and Johnson fit the description on a BOLO.

A crime was called in. A BOLO was issued. They don't wait to see if someone wants to press charges.

Are you making the argument the chief was confused about wilson being pushed into the car and whether a BOLO was issued ?

We've already gone over the issue of whether Brown struggled with Wilson inside the car including the chief's statement. Why are you asking a question that was just addressed?

As for the BOLO, there was a report that Wilson heard it and a report that Wilson was only addressing the walking in the street. There's been a couple Net reports that there was no BOLO for a couple different reasons. The dispatch recording has not been made public.

There was a report that one of the police officers that responded to the store theft identified Brown as he lay dead at the scene as being the theft suspect.

There's a report that Brown pays for the cigars on the video and a report by Johnson's attorney that Johnson admitted to the store incident. And on the video Brown gave Johnson a pack of cigars and Johnson put them back on the counter.

Johnson was not charged and Wilson made no attempt to arrest him as Wilson chased and shot Brown.

Neither Johnson nor Brown seemed particularly worried about the store theft when they were told to get out of the street and instead argued with Wilson.

That's a whole lot of contradictory evidence about whether or not Wilson knew about the store robbery.

Just saying...

 

[Cylinder]

A crime was called in. A BOLO was issued. They don't wait to see if someone wants to press charges.

Regardless of what the store's attorney asserts, FPD was collecting evidence, canvassing the neighborhood with multiple units, trying to locate witnesses and even ticked the little willing to prosecute box on the incident report.

There are multiple references to BOLO-type advisories by FPD:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9051[/imgw]

This seems to be the initial response to the stealing report. Before the officer arrived on-scene, description had already been dispatched.

Another unit interviewing witnesses received a more detailed description of Brown and Johnson, radioed that description and began to canvass:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9052[/imgw]

Another unit reports getting a description by some unknown means, canvassing the area and observing another unit conducting a canvass:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9053[/imgw]

There's even a reference to the canvass on what I take to be an in-car messaging system by a unit:

[imgw=500]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9054[/imgw]

So, yeah, the idea that the police were sort of shrugging their shoulders on the strong-arm robbery really doesn't bear scrutiny.

 

[Cylinder]

This is the video I was looking for regarding the timing of the BOLO (as well as the release of the robbery video) in Jackson's own words:



Jackson basically asserts the first contact was over the pedestrian issue, that Wilson possibly noticed the cigars after driving away and that there were radio dispatches regarding the suspect information - some of which are documented in my earlier post regarding the BOLO-type messages and canvassing.

 

[pakeha]

Of course you may, but I'll limit myself to suggesting you Google my user
name and ponder my avatar.

I did, but it's rude to make assumptions.

I value my anonymity and wonder why my birth origin is think it relevant to the discussion.

In any case, I live in Spain and instead of thug, people would prolly say "gorilla", normally applied to night-club and disco security, Latin American gang members, neo-Nazi youths and Eastern European mafia types.

In the US, "gorilla" would likely get you called out immediately, and people hate to be thought of as racists, even when they clearly embrace racism.So, instead, we get a different set of thinly-veiled euphemisms - such as "thug" or "welfare queen" - along with goofy assumptions such as "black people never talk about black on black crime".[/QUOTE]
Well, gorilla is, of course, a Spanish word and I doubt many USAians would even catch it if I said the word as it's meant to be pronounced. Is "gorilla", in a USAian pronounciation, a term used to denigrate blacks?
I had no idea.

 

[pakeha]

Remember the FOIA request?
That's what makes it different.

So you think there has been no FOIA request for Wilson's statement? For the first autopsy? For the evidence from the scene?

The difference in status between the robbery investigation and the on-going investigation of Brown's death was explained up-thread.
Shall I re-post it for you?

Back on topic, I think there's still some confusion regarding the Ferguson Grocery video. There's no statutory criterion to close that investigative report by virtue of its relevance to another investigation. An investigative report becomes inactive when any of the following conditions are met:

(a) A decision by the law enforcement agency not to pursue the case;

(b) Expiration of the time to file criminal charges pursuant to the applicable statute of limitations, or ten years after the commission of the offense; whichever date earliest occurs;

(c) Finality of the convictions of all persons convicted on the basis of the information contained in the investigative report, by exhaustion of or expiration of all rights of appeal of such persons;
​

It is fairly clear that sub (a) applies in this case - the incident being closed by the "extraordinary circumstance" of Brown's death. I suggest that when the shooting incident becomes inactive under the same criterion, we will find that those investigators also compiled investigative reports regarding the robbery and those were closed by virtue of being conducted in reference to an active investigation.

There was no robbery. There was a report of one, but it was mistaken.

ETA: Moreover, Officer Wilson was not aware of the report. That we know for fact.

You're quite wrong there.
We've known for some time a BOLO was sent out and when it was sent out.

There was an altercation with a store clerk in which the clerk laid hands on Brown and was shoved.

The chief of police says Wilson was unaware of that incident.

The store never reported a robbery as revealed by a statement from their lawyer.

The call was from a "concerned citizen" who saw the shoving incident from outside of the store.

Not so.

An unidentified employee had just come out of the restroom and come to the counter when she observed Brown telling a clerk he wanted several boxes of cigars, the reports say. The name of two employees have been redacted from the report:

"As (redacted) was placing the boxes on the counter, Brown grabbed a box of Swisher Sweets cigars and handed them to Johnson who was standing behind Brown. (Redacted) witnessed (redacted) tell Brown that he had to pay for those cigars first. That is when Brown reached across the counter and grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to leave the store. (Redacted) then calls '911.' Meanwhile (redacted) comes out from behind the counter and attempts to stop Brown from leaving. According to (redacted),(redacted) was trying to lock the door until Brown returned the merchandise to him. That is when Brown grabbed (redacted) by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back in to a display rack. (Redacted) backed away and Brown and Johnson exited the store with the cigars."

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...5f9a-973c-70d628d0be04.html?mobile_touch=true

I think there may be some genuine shock in store for those adhering to the story that Wilson was unaware of the stealing BOLO.



ETA: What Elvis said.

Ninja'd, yet again.

Or one of these two scenarios might turn out to be true:


the Ferguson Market attorney said

Or, there was no BOLO because the store clerk declined to press charges.

Are you saying there was no BOLO?

 

[Mumbles]

If the door was open, a struggle " through the window" makes little sense.

By all accounts, the door was closed when Wilson and Brown were fighting.