Michael Brown shooting II

[Fudbucker]

NO, NO, NO, the sounds could not have been added later. Please take a moment to understand how this tech works.

Glide is a streaming media app. You stream video in real time, like you do with Skype. But's it's using something like Adobe's Media Server (previously FlashCom) to record the video on their servers. It's then saved out to an .H264 encoded file that lives on their servers (not your own phone), and then is available to be shared this way. The file the FBI got was timestamped from Glide's servers and was retrieved from Glide's servers. In other words, although it's possible this recording is of another shooting that happened precisely at the time Brown was being killed, there's no way this audio was created after the fact. Unless you think Glide.com is in on a conspiracy.

Understand now?

I'm not an audio expert, but this guy is: http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/meet-the-experts/meet-ed-primeau/

"I was contacted today by two media outlets regarding an audio recording that was released last night to CNN.

The recording is alledged to be a video chat with the gunshots that killed Michael Brown in the background. I began my forensic investigation by researching the weapon Officer Wilson used to kill Michael Brown. The weapon is a Sig Sauer P229. Next I found a video on YouTube of the Sig Sauer P229 being fired. When conducting forensic comparison, I conclude the weapon in the recording matches the Sig Sauer P229. However, there are other much bigger issues.

Why did this person wait so long to release this recording? You would think he would go to authorities immediately! Next, why did we receive only a portion of an obviously longer recording? Then there is the fact that it sounds like he is reading instead of conversing with his girlfriend like he said he was? Plus, don’t you think he would stop when he hears gunshots? I know I would. Why does he continue to read right through the shots fired?

Seems like a fake recording to me. Something to get attention the day after Michael Brown was laid to rest. Don’t you think the timing is odd for this recording to be released?"

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/new-recording-michael-brown/

So yes, I'm highly suspicious of it. Even more so now.

ETA: And witnesses have said there was a single shot fired when Brown and Wilson struggled. Why is that not on the recording?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Have any of you actually stood up and gone through the motions of what it would be like to be shot in your rights side while running forward at different points in your stride?

Several ways in which I have imagined and actually run through the motions myself; I can easily see my head dipping down as my right side gets flung back mid step. I dont see how people can deny the plausibility of your head dipping while running.

First off, playing sports my entire life I have come across so many different running styles, some of which run just looking straight down, some lean forward heavily; while others run standing perfectly straight up (also weird), and others with their head all the tilted back. Now insert bullets and physics and there are a million ways a persons head can dip after being shot. I have seen peoples head dip after getting a basketball to the gut, let only multiple gun shots to one side.

Everyone denying this is silly, and pretending that there is only one possible way a person can run is also stupid. Stop comparing this case to the perfect human Olympic running techniques.

All these scenarios, with Brown merely looking downward, including the bull-rushing scenario people are still clinging to* do not account for the direction the bullet took: top of head angled toward the face.

Regardless of the possibility the bullet took a turn, the most likely position of Brown's head is not simply bent over. It's more likely his head was also lower than Wilson's gun.



*Yes Skeptic Tank, at least 2 people in the thread are still claiming this.

 

[sgtbaker]

Well then we're likely to never agree on this subject, since I think that would have been outrageous. A trained police officer should be able to take a punch without resorting to his gun, but even if he's hit and then the suspect tries to run away, there's no reason to kill a person over that. The punishment for resisting arrest in a free society is not the death penalty.

I think that's the biggest problem I have with the case. It seems generally accepted that at least a few rounds were fired at Brown while he was fleeing (open to correction if I am wrong). I have no issue with being able to use deadly force when defending yourself from a threat. I take great issue with being legally allowed to shoot at someone who is fleeing, meaning they are no longer the imminent threat they once were.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The last volley of four could not have make six holes in the front.

Therefor, the first volley of six must have been from the front too. Unless you think Brown was spinning like a top, and yet four hits were to the same area?

Four hits to the same area- one of which might have been from the front also, or maybe behind,.... hmmm.... Occam's razor anybody?

....The last volley of four could not have make six holes in the front... So therefor, Brown was facing Wilson during both volleys.

I suspect one shot in the car, six more out the window, with four hits to arm area, foot chase ensues before the tweaked Brown gives up, turn, and Wilson sees him 'attacking'. Four more shots, two misses, two hits to head.

You've added a whole scenario here of Wilson shooting a volley out the car window. Neither witnesses nor police say this happened.

As for the volley of 6, why are you ruling out Brown turning around during the volley? Getting hit in the same arm could easily happen as he was turning.

You also keep repeating two shots hit the head without addressing the problem of the position of that head before the shots hit.

 

[Unabogie]

I'm not an audio expert, but this guy is: http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/meet-the-experts/meet-ed-primeau/

"I was contacted today by two media outlets regarding an audio recording that was released last night to CNN.

The recording is alledged to be a video chat with the gunshots that killed Michael Brown in the background. I began my forensic investigation by researching the weapon Officer Wilson used to kill Michael Brown. The weapon is a Sig Sauer P229. Next I found a video on YouTube of the Sig Sauer P229 being fired. When conducting forensic comparison, I conclude the weapon in the recording matches the Sig Sauer P229. However, there are other much bigger issues.

Why did this person wait so long to release this recording? You would think he would go to authorities immediately! Next, why did we receive only a portion of an obviously longer recording? Then there is the fact that it sounds like he is reading instead of conversing with his girlfriend like he said he was? Plus, don’t you think he would stop when he hears gunshots? I know I would. Why does he continue to read right through the shots fired?

Seems like a fake recording to me. Something to get attention the day after Michael Brown was laid to rest. Don’t you think the timing is odd for this recording to be released?"

http://www.audioforensicexpert.com/new-recording-michael-brown/

So yes, I'm highly suspicious of it. Even more so now.

ETA: And witnesses have said there was a single shot fired when Brown and Wilson struggled. Why is that not on the recording?

Again, you don't seem to be listening. This guy says he was conversing with his girlfriend. No, that's not how Glide works. You record videos. It's one way communication. Second, the recording cannot have been faked because it's recorded in real time with a time stamp. Do you understand what that means? There's no editing of this file. It's a snapshot in time. The recording is real. Any attempts to call it a fake have been debunked by the Glide company.

Now, as for why he didn't react? Maybe he didn't hear it. Maybe he was wearing headphones. Maybe he was doing...er...things and was preoccupied. None of that matters, since we know, to a certainty, that this recording is legit. It was recorded at this time. And this quote of yours even says the gunfire matches a Sig (although he sounds like a crank anyway, especially since he gets so many details wrong).

In the end, feel free to pretend the audio isn't real. It is, whether you accept it or not.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, just using rational thinking to posit alternative scenarios against misdirected posts which claim to have "devastated" and "demolished" any possibility that wilson was actually defending himself.

OnlyTellsTruths noted a key issue: you are selective in what you call a lie, calling one truth a lie and ignoring one lie by not calling it.

She notes you chose a minor point (the number of shots) while ignoring the key point (evidence of shooting at Brown as he fled).

And what do you do? You ignore the key issue and post something irrelevant to that point.

 

[GWCarver]

I think that's the biggest problem I have with the case. It seems generally accepted that at least a few rounds were fired at Brown while he was fleeing (open to correction if I am wrong). I have no issue with being able to use deadly force when defending yourself from a threat. I take great issue with being legally allowed to shoot at someone who is fleeing, meaning they are no longer the imminent threat they once were.

On Fox News, Mark Fuhrman pointed out that if Wilson was attacked in his car, he would not have had the opportunity to frisk Michael Brown, so he would not have known whether or not he was armed. That means he couldn't have known what type of threat he was facing.

 

[Unabogie]

On Fox News, Mark Fuhrman pointed out that if Wilson was attacked in his car, he would not have had the opportunity to frisk Michael Brown, so he would not have known whether or not he was armed. That means he couldn't have known what type of threat he was facing.

Well if anyone knows about good policing, it's Mark Fuhrman!



By this logic, anyone police arrest could be hiding a weapon and so all suspects can be justifiably shot.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Sure, let's start there. Be specific. Here are 5 witnesses. What is it they say that is inconsistent with my scenario, but matched Unabogies?

And here you do the same thing.

You said Brown was shot at from behind but not hit.

We point out at least one bullet wound indicated Brown might have been hit from behind.

And instead of admitting you were wrong, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE BROWN WAS NOT HIT FROM BEHIND, you go off on another tangent.

 

[Kestrel]

I find it telling that the so called audio forensic expert makes no mention of how the recording was created. When you are selling a conspiracy theory, the standard tactic is to only provide the information that fits your theory.

 

[tsig]

NO, NO, NO, the sounds could not have been added later. Please take a moment to understand how this tech works.

Glide is a streaming media app. You stream video in real time, like you do with Skype. But's it's using something like Adobe's Media Server (previously FlashCom) to record the video on their servers. It's then saved out to an .H264 encoded file that lives on their servers (not your own phone), and then is available to be shared this way. The file the FBI got was timestamped from Glide's servers and was retrieved from Glide's servers. In other words, although it's possible this recording is of another shooting that happened precisely at the time Brown was being killed, there's no way this audio was created after the fact. Unless you think Glide.com is in on a conspiracy.

Understand now?

Why does Glide.com hate officer Wilson(pbuh).

 

[jk143]

Regarding head position

This is a fast moving thread! I'm having a hard time keeping up, so I apologize if already considered. From what I understand there seems to be disagreement on just how MB head could have been in a lowered position for the final (maybe) 2 shots.

It seems we have these options:

1) Surrendering
2) Tripping
3) Charging

If for the moment, we ignore motivation, thought process, dumb decisions on, etc. on either side, why option 3 is not considered valid possibility to explain the head positions is beyond me.

With regard to option 3 specifically, I am sure we've all witnessed someone starting to run from basically a stand still or slow walk. It is not at all uncommon for the head to duck down as the runner begins gathering forward momentum. For reference take a look a this video (starting about 2:30) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BmtGNjm7BE

For those disputing this, can you provide any reason why this could not be an explanation for a down turned head? For the sake of discussion, please don't assume any motivation, thoughts, ill will etc. Could this not explain a head position, if we assume a forward charge? I promise I won't hold it against you in a "gotcha" moment, if you happen agree that this could explain the head position.

Thanks

 

[Unabogie]

I find it telling that the so called audio forensic expert makes no mention of how the recording was created. When you are selling a conspiracy theory, the standard tactic is to only provide the information that fits your theory.

Which only perpetuates the misunderstanding of people like Fudbucker on how the technology works, which allows people to erroneously entertain theories that it's a fake recording. I've said this before, but the man who recorded this deserves serious credit for sending the video to the FBI because it's completely embarrassing to him a personal level. He'll have to get up before a GJ and the public and explain himself. And he did this so that justice will be served. Kudos to him, since I question whether most people would do the same thing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

While it could have come from either front or back, it is likely it was made from his front. The reason being that shots made by a right handed shooter under time pressure or stress are most likely to be pulled to the left (because their finger is applying some torque rather than going straight back). The shooters left is to the targets right (when the target is facing them). All the other shots to Brown's body were pulled to the same side/ direction of center mass. .. it would be odd if the shot to the arm was different.

The evidence you base this conclusion on is no more than contrived speculation, but it doesn't even hold up to scrutiny. There are many scenarios explaining the clustering of right arm wounds, the most likely one being that arm was hit as Brown turned.

That Wilson was shooting as Brown fled is not disputed by the police.

Unless Wilson reloaded, the ten shots on the audio are most of the shots. There was one more from the car leaving 2 bullets unaccounted for.

Are you suggesting the volley at fleeing Brown consisted of only 2 shots?

 

[Unabogie]

This is a fast moving thread! I'm having a hard time keeping up, so I apologize if already considered. From what I understand there seems to be disagreement on just how MB head could have been in a lowered position for the final (maybe) 2 shots.

It seems we have these options:

1) Surrendering
2) Tripping
3) Charging

If for the moment, we ignore motivation, thought process, dumb decisions on, etc. on either side, why option 3 is not considered valid possibility to explain the head positions is beyond me.

With regard to option 3 specifically, I am sure we've all witnessed someone starting to run from basically a stand still or slow walk. It is not at all uncommon for the head to duck down as the runner begins gathering forward momentum. For reference take a look a this video (starting about 2:30) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BmtGNjm7BE

For those disputing this, can you provide any reason why this could not be an explanation for a down turned head? For the sake of discussion, please don't assume any motivation, thoughts, ill will etc. Could this not explain a head position, if we assume a forward charge? I promise I won't hold it against you in a "gotcha" moment, if you happen agree that this could explain the head position.

Thanks

It's because of the audio recording. Assuming there are 11 shots total, the volley of six shots heard were from behind. The last four were from the front. If Brown stopped after being shot at/from behind, then there are only about 2-3 seconds for him to stop, turn, taunt, then begin his charge. In other words, I don't think it could have happened this way. Furthermore, there were four witnesses to the shooting, and none of them saw Brown charging, especially not with a full head of steam like you've described. For this to be true, all of these witnesses have to be liars.

ETA: Your video is of a finely toned athlete. Michael Brown was 292 pounds, hardly the pinnacle of health, and would not be getting into any kind of run so quickly.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The policy was changed in 2010.

And any and all complaints filed against Wilson when he worked for the Jennings police department that was completely disbanded because racism and corruption was so bad are not available.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This isn't a case cracking question, just something I am curious about. In Johnson's account, Brown was shot once during the confrontation in the car. I know he said that he was shot and saw blood from the shot in the car, in the interview on the street. I believe he said it on the second television interview as well but I am not sure. Is it possible that the graze occurred in the car which accounts for the discrepancy in grouping of wounds? I would imagine it is more difficult to determine distance with a graze, especially without the clothing to test for GSR. Is that possible?

Brown's palm only needed to be a foot or more away from the gun to have no powder or stippling according to Baden.

If Johnson's account is accurate about the shot out the window hitting Brown, (and I don't think it's relevant if the shot did or did not hit Brown), that hand graze and the reentry wound in the right side of the chest are consistent with Johnson's account.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Well if that's true, then we need to know how many shell casings were found. If 10 shots are accounted for on the audio, and 1 is accounted for at the car, then there are two other shots that could have possibly been fired. Weren't there three casings found by the SUV?

If you are talking about the three cones, one was the hat, one the cigars and one either casing(s) or someone suggested Brown's watch or something.

You would think one casing was in the car. And as Wilson got out and began running and shooting the casings would likely be ejected behind him. He could have been a distance from the car and we could still see the casings there.

 

[Mumbles]

I find it telling that the so called audio forensic expert makes no mention of how the recording was created. When you are selling a conspiracy theory, the standard tactic is to only provide the information that fits your theory.

Exactly. The thing is, it does not matter whether or not it "seems" real to him. The time is verified by Glide, the location is verified by the guy's lawyer. Unless someone can come up with a specific reason to doubt that the bangs are gunshots (eg. the garbage truck was right at the apartment at that exact time, and here's the garbage man saying that those sounds was actually him), then it's reasonable to say that the sounds were Wilson firing at Brown.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Elvis knows I won't engage with him anymore, so I didn't realize he's taken to calling me a liar after every post of mine, which is, frankly, why I don't engage with him anymore.

And Fudbucker called Brown a thug, thinks the reporter knows more than Dr Baden about the autopsy notes, (or it's a conspiracy to cover up the autopsy report that they accidentally showed to the reporter?), and the audio is a fake.