[Merged]Rape Plummets as Porn Proliferates

Southwind17 said:
Instead of speculating over the validity of indirect measurements with an assumed causal link and correlation, not to mention the fallibility and unreliability of the underlying data, why not simply interview a cross-section of rapists and seek out their motives and, more importantly, prompts. That might sound simple and fundamentally flawed (in some way), but if you cannot do that, then how can you possibly hope that indirect measures with all their fundamental weaknesses, as described above, can be helpful, as the two methods of measurement are inextricably linked, with the indirect measure, by definition, being far less reliable.

Incidentally, I should not be surprised at all to learn that certain 'styles' of pornography have indeed led directly to, or at least contributed directly to, some instances of rape, but I suspect the incidence is low in comparison to all instances of rape, even assuming a 'more violent' definition of rape.
Click to expand...

I think you'd run into the same sampling problem as when people try to link violent video games to crime. They go into the shooter's house and find "Grand Theft Auto" and scream "Aha!" But they do not mention the millions of people who have that game who have not murdered anybody. If you start with the sample and then study all their stuff to see what qualified them to be in your sample to begin with, you're working backwards.

The proper way to do a study would be to give the stimulus to a randomly selected sample, then wait to see how many exhibit the behavior you suspect they will..and compare to all of those that don't to see if it's significant.
 
tkingdoll said:
Erm...where is my last post from this thread? It was there last night and now this thread is merged with another and it's gone. Anyone else lost a post?
Click to expand...

Not lost one, but the 'merge' certainly has me confused. What's happened?!
 
porn keeps rapists hands full

Porn may cause in the viewer the impression that extreme acts are more common than they really are. Anal and facials, for example, are not as common in your normal sex life as they are on any porn site. Because of porn I have ideas about sex I might not have had otherwise. But it has created in me no sociopathic desire to abduct, subdue and penetrate an unwilling woman.

That's ridiculous and indeed the opposite is what as this tread's title suggests.

Porn is a niche product: You don't seek out porn unless you WANT sexual ideas and images. It provides the stimuli to allow the climax, a release, instead of repressing the urge. That is basis of the idea that rape rates could be lower thanks to porn. Sounds like a chapter out of Freakonomics.

Like! -- How does voyeurism lead to rape except in circumstances where the individual is likely to do that anyways? That arguement has always been bunk in my opinion. Besides if there was any reason to protest porn in the 80s it would be because of how bad it was.

And now for my controversial one liner: Religion relies on sexual repression and channels that frustrated energy into various scapegoats.

I guess that belongs in a new thread. Ah well, I'm new.
 
Dorian Gray said:
Arguably, the internet makes it easier for predators to hook up with children or pictures of children. We've seen an increase of people getting busted for that, from the teacher/student thing to the pediatrician child porno lover. So don't go tooting the horn yet.
Click to expand...

We've seen claims of this. We've seen borderline entrapments on TV, where it makes for very entertaining viewing. Do we have any statistics this is actually increasing the prevalence of such acts? For all we know, this, too, is actually falling, thanks to porn.

Remember that the church burnings thing that crops up as a national issue every five or ten years usually is nothing of the sort. Some politician touts a "sudden" epidemic of burnings, when statistically there is no change, which then becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy as a bunch of copycats suddenly fire things up, thus causing a very real bulge in burnings -- because of the politician.
 
Loss Leader said:
Maybe they're not as common in your sex life but don't presume to know what depravities I'm engaged in over here.
Click to expand...
Actually we do know. You'd be amazed how easy it is to mount a webcam in someone's house without his knowledge.
 
BPSCG said:
Actually we do know. You'd be amazed how easy it is to mount a webcam in someone's house without his knowledge.
Click to expand...

I had every intention of asking, but you were out of town and I was on a deadline.


At any rate, we had some discussions in a sociology class about video games and a (supposed) reduction in certain types of crime, especially among the young male demographic. It was discussion only, and I bring it up not as evidence, but as a similar idea to the one now under discussion.

Wondering aloud, if we could get reliable statistical data for the last 20 years on various types of crimes/social ills, would we be able to find a reduction in certain types with a correlating increase in their virtual replacements? [edit: I said that wrong the first time, sorry.]

What if such a study showed that performing an action at the computer or TV screen is a sufficient replacement for the real thing....

Is replacing a harmful activity with a(n apparently) harmless one desirable?
Would we rather eliminate the proclivity altogether, or control it with virtual reality? If we find we can't eliminate it, is settling for a harmless outlet acceptable, in general?


No, the forum isn't on fire. That smoke you smell is just me, thinking. :D
 
Last edited:
Loss Leader said:
Maybe they're not as common in your sex life but don't presume to know what depravities I'm engaged in over here.
Click to expand...

;)

That little tidbit I read in a psych textbook "Understanding Abnormal Behaviour" I remember it said that (within a control group) porn "skewed" impressions of common or accepted sexual practices and affected the sexual fantasies of men. But frankly I think porn helps peoples sex life. How many times have you siad to yourself, "I gotta try that!"

A population that gets laid better for everyone. Even if it's a virtual.
Same with video games. Simulation seems like it's the next best thing so i'm in favour.


Indeed, I wonder if average sex life is kinkier today than 50 years ago. I bet it is but not only because of porn but because of a lot of reasons.


Here's a new correlation to investigate STDs and porn.. Not that I have ANY data on that! I'm just wondering ..
 
"Porn "skewed" impressions of common or accepted sexual practices and affected the sexual fantasies of men. But frankly I think porn helps peoples sex life. "

Just throwing this out but a guy I know once told me the exact opposite. He said that because porn is so unrealistic, so stylized and so untrue to real sex, it gives men completely unrealistic expectations about sex and women when entering relationships up to and including marriage.
 
Last edited:
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
"Porn "skewed" impressions of common or accepted sexual practices and affected the sexual fantasies of men. But frankly I think porn helps peoples sex life. "

Just throwing this out but a guy I know once told me the exact opposite. He said that because porn is so unrealistic, so stylized and so untrue to real sex, it gives men completely unrealistic expectations about sex and women when entering relationships up to and including marriage.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but it makes as much sense to think your sex life should be like porn as it does to think that the rest of your life should be like a Hollywood movie.

We expect most people to understand why real life is different from the movies. Movies and porn are for escapist entertainment, not for accurately depicting everyday life.
 
slingblade said:
I had every intention of asking, but you were out of town and I was on a deadline.


At any rate, we had some discussions in a sociology class about video games and a (supposed) reduction in certain types of crime, especially among the young male demographic. It was discussion only, and I bring it up not as evidence, but as a similar idea to the one now under discussion.

Wondering aloud, if we could get reliable statistical data for the last 20 years on various types of crimes/social ills, would we be able to find a reduction in certain types with a correlating increase in their virtual replacements? [edit: I said that wrong the first time, sorry.]

What if such a study showed that performing an action at the computer or TV screen is a sufficient replacement for the real thing....

Is replacing a harmful activity with a(n apparently) harmless one desirable?
Would we rather eliminate the proclivity altogether, or control it with virtual reality? If we find we can't eliminate it, is settling for a harmless outlet acceptable, in general?


No, the forum isn't on fire. That smoke you smell is just me, thinking. :D
Click to expand...

According to economic theory, if one thing is a substitute for another (even if not a perfect substitute), and the cost/benefit ratio of one of those things decreases (the cost goes down and/or the benefit goes up) then people will start consuming more of that thing and less of the other. Heck, I'm married and I probably spend more time viewing porn than having sex with my wife. Often, she is not available for one reason or another, so I find a substitute.

In the case of crimes, of course, the "cost" is not a cash cost, but a risk cost and maybe a psychological cost (depending on whether the criminal has a conscience and how developed that conscience is).

In answer to your question, I think the pragmatic course is to accept that human beings are what they are, and it is not possible to "perfect" them. So you figure out how to let them do what they need to do in a way that doesn't cause harm to others, or at least causes less harm. A utilitarian approach.
 
Puppycow said:
Maybe, but it makes as much sense to think your sex life should be like porn as it does to think that the rest of your life should be like a Hollywood movie.

We expect most people to understand why real life is different from the movies. Movies and porn are for escapist entertainment, not for accurately depicting everyday life.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it had a rational or logical basis.


I hate to say it and this is a discussion for another time but you can link real-life smoking, drinking, violence, promiscuity, racism, homophobia and sexism to media smoking, drinking, violence, promiscuity, racism, homophobia and sexism.

That's the thing: if you study media and psychology you realize that people can and often do subconsciously think their lives should be like Hollywood movies and their sex lives should be like pornos.

Movies and other media do shape our worldview, ideas and mentality and you can't consciously separate one from the other.
 
BPSCG said:
While my inclination is to agree, in the absence of controlled, double-blind studies, the author is really saying more than he/she knows. Maybe rapes would have decreased just as much if there'd been no Internet with 244 million porn pages (I'm still trying to find the last 14 of them...); maybe the decrease would have been even greater without 244 million porn pages. There's really no way of telling for sure.

BTW, world's worst thread title.
Click to expand...

...not to mention that oh btw there is no proof provided in the initial post anyway. Sorry but "studies show....." is just a wee tad vague to have any value. Sound more like wishful thinking than anything else.

It would be interesting if this were true, and I certainly hope rape etc are on the decline as stated, but I'd like to see something a BIT more concrete.
 
Professor Yaffle said:
Is rape really down by 72% compared to 1993??

According to this data http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_01.html it has gone from 41/100000 (in 1993) to about 32/100000 (in 2005). How is that a 72% drop? What figures were being used by the article? Also, choosing 1993 as a comparison year is a bit misleading since it was pretty much a high point. Rates had been increasing before then, and then declined after then. So pretty much any date you could have picked would be low in comparison and could be used to prove whatever you like. You ca't use two points to find a correlation and any article that does so is misleading in order the bolster their own argument.

I haven't looked into whether pornography and rape are related, and hold no opinion about it, but that is just misleading.
Click to expand...

Exactly, thank you, great post

Those #s are encouraging, regardless of reason(s).
 
Southwind17 said:
And what use or significance would such 'evidence' serve? I'm pretty sure that there's equally strong evidence to show that iPod use, eating BigMacs, watching Oprah and wearing contact lenses don't encourage rape either. Are you suggesting we should all indulge in such activities, lest we're tempted to divert our attention to raping instead?!
Click to expand...

Also well said, thanks.
 
Last edited:
Ian Osborne said:
Absolutely, but rape reporting has increased over the years, due to more sensitive handling of investigations and DNA evidence increasing the likelihood of a conviction.
I'm not saying there isn't another 'very strong factor' at work here,
Click to expand...

Like say the one you just mentioned?

Or maybe Peyton Manning maybe.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
I hate to say it and this is a discussion for another time but you can link real-life smoking, drinking, violence, promiscuity, racism, homophobia and sexism to media smoking, drinking, violence, promiscuity, racism, homophobia and sexism.

That's the thing: if you study media and psychology you realize that people can and often do subconsciously think their lives should be like Hollywood movies and their sex lives should be like pornos.

Movies and other media do shape our worldview, ideas and mentality and you can't consciously separate one from the other.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with that. But it is also a two-way street. Life imitates art and Art imitates life. As smoking and racism, etc. in the culture become less prevalent, they become less prevalent in movies too. Some movies and books that were once thought to be very progressive would make us cringe today.

With porn, too, I think it is a two-way street. It has to respond to its consumer's tastes, and demands, and doesn't just create them where they didn't exist. I also expect there will come a day when shock value alone gets played out. Pretty much everything that consenting adults can legally do has been done already, so maybe it will become more erotic and less "how can we top that" in the future.
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Just throwing this out but a guy I know once told me the exact opposite. He said that because porn is so unrealistic, so stylized and so untrue to real sex, it gives men completely unrealistic expectations about sex and women when entering relationships up to and including marriage.
Click to expand...

I think that this is blaming pornography for failures in sex education.

Porn isn't meant to teach people what real sex is like, any more than a Jackie Chan movie is meant to teach people what real violence is like.

If young men are beginning their sexual lives with no models of what a sexual relationship is meant to be like other than pornographic movies I don't think it's reasonable to blame the porn. You should blame the fact that they have not been exposed to any other material that educates them on the topic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom